00:00:04.380 --> 00:00:08.588 I'm in wasting a lot of time. Uh, you know, fixing minor
00:00:08.588 --> 00:00:13.460 things before it was done. And I think that the budget and it was
00:00:13.460 --> 00:00:17.742 really bad and it's, you know, but but we kind of have to
00:00:17.742 --> 00:00:22.466 decide what's been going, what we wanna go forward with now. So
00:00:22.466 --> 00:00:27.117 I started doing this and I don't think this is necessarily the
00:00:27.117 --> 00:00:31.620 answer, but it was just the first thing I thought of and so.
00:00:32.570 --> 00:00:33.840 Go with it in order to.
00:00:35.050 --> 00:00:36.080 Make something happen.
00:00:37.340 --> 00:00:38.470 Let me quick pull it up.
00:00:40.620 --> 00:00:43.619 Well, I think we just have to come up with the the second step
00:00:43.619 --> 00:00:44.000 of this.
00:00:46.530 --> 00:00:49.045 And I hope you all are formulating thoughts because
00:00:49.045 --> 00:00:52.188 this is going to kind of be the extent of it after just a second
00:00:52.188 --> 00:00:52.430 here.
00:00:53.950 --> 00:00:58.411 So we have the new architecture piece I'm going through and when
00:00:58.411 --> 00:01:02.322 I find that all of the user stories underneath it are in
00:01:02.322 --> 00:01:06.303 what I would call a closed state, which would be deployed
00:01:06.303 --> 00:01:10.352 to QA beyond right. Anything outside of code complete, I'm
00:01:10.352 --> 00:01:11.930 setting it to resolved.
00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:17.503 Once it's set to resolved, I go into this feature that I created
00:01:17.503 --> 00:01:21.759 that's QA and feature sign off, and I make a user story and a
00:01:21.759 --> 00:01:25.741 task with 10% of the total time it took to implement that
00:01:25.741 --> 00:01:29.929 feature. So if we looked at single user restriction, there's
00:01:29.929 --> 00:01:34.117 a good chance that this took about 3 hours, right? So we put
00:01:34.117 --> 00:01:38.168 1/2 hour in there and we say go read the user, go read the
00:01:38.168 --> 00:01:42.012 information, then even write anything in there. But the
00:01:42.012 --> 00:01:43.660 concept that is go read.
00:01:43.750 --> 00:01:47.033 But the user stories are and quick make sure it does all of
00:01:47.033 --> 00:01:50.425 those things. Now. This is a great way to kind of get eyes on
00:01:50.425 --> 00:01:53.598 it and maybe poke something else out, but I think we need
00:01:53.598 --> 00:01:56.553 something that's more substantial that when I talk to
00:01:56.553 --> 00:02:00.055 joy about this, I said, hey, if there's something quick you can
00:02:00.055 --> 00:02:03.556 fix in there and it caused you to go a little bit over. But the
00:02:03.556 --> 00:02:07.167 thing itself is fixed. Just make sure you're telling at the PM by
00:02:07.167 --> 00:02:10.341 sync. I know, I know for our development team, we need to
00:02:10.341 --> 00:02:12.420 have something a touch more rigorous.
00:02:13.300 --> 00:02:14.590 Right, that has.
00:02:16.460 --> 00:02:20.419 Kind of like an earnest output. My thought is like, hey, there's
00:02:20.419 --> 00:02:23.890 no bugs. They close the user story and we call it a day.
00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:28.765 If there is bugs that keep it in development, maybe they make
00:02:28.765 --> 00:02:30.100 notes in here about stuff.
00:02:30.850 --> 00:02:32.690 You know, what do you guys think? What should we do?
00:02:34.860 --> 00:02:35.660 I.
00:02:34.990 --> 00:02:35.580 So.
00:02:36.780 --> 00:02:40.545 For one, do just want to call out and then I'll get off my
00:02:40.545 --> 00:02:44.565 soapbox. But if we are going to be doing that, we need to make
00:02:44.565 --> 00:02:48.713 sure that we as project managers are not double dipping on this.
00:02:48.713 --> 00:02:52.414 So we need to be careful and make sure that we understand
00:02:49.490 --> 00:02:50.030 Umm.
00:02:52.414 --> 00:02:56.497 that those are assigned people are looking at those tickets and
00:02:56.497 --> 00:03:00.645 we're not going crazy spending, you know, X amount of time doing
00:03:00.645 --> 00:03:04.410 our QA while there's developers actively doing it as well.
00:03:04.900 --> 00:03:07.947 Sure. And that's a good point stuff and I that I neglected
00:03:07.947 --> 00:03:10.220 there, how much QA are we doing is PM team.
00:03:11.420 --> 00:03:15.678 I'm a control freak and I look at everything because it's the
00:03:15.678 --> 00:03:19.661 best way that I know to be competent, competently able to
00:03:19.661 --> 00:03:22.270 discuss it with the client in a call.
00:03:22.730 --> 00:03:25.670 And I agree with that fully. For what it's worth.
00:03:24.830 --> 00:03:25.500 And.
00:03:26.820 --> 00:03:28.320 Right, like I just.
00:03:30.030 --> 00:03:35.679 I I like the idea that we are methodical and we have tickets
00:03:35.679 --> 00:03:41.607 to validate that status at the same time, I am loathe to let it
00:03:41.607 --> 00:03:47.164 go myself, and I'm also like ooh, suddenly my, you know, my
00:03:47.164 --> 00:03:52.350 export that shows me the remaining work on the project.
00:03:53.550 --> 00:03:57.089 Like it's got a bunch and this is like largely cause we did
00:03:57.089 --> 00:04:00.570 this one midstream right, but like ohh shoot where 30 more
00:03:57.800 --> 00:03:58.450 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:00.570 --> 00:04:04.404 hours come from or whatever, you know, probably wasn't 30 hours,
00:04:02.130 --> 00:04:02.460 Yeah.
00:04:04.020 --> 00:04:06.486 That's about 8:00 or something like that. But sure, I hear you
00:04:04.404 --> 00:04:04.640 but.
00:04:05.370 --> 00:04:09.710 But like my my burn down changed suddenly and I was like, ooh,
00:04:06.486 --> 00:04:06.760 saying.
00:04:09.710 --> 00:04:13.912 wait, what's up? And so that's my concern is there I I don't
00:04:13.912 --> 00:04:18.044 wanna double dip on the hours but I do want to have seen it
00:04:18.044 --> 00:04:18.320 all.
00:04:19.780 --> 00:04:20.960 OK, that's a good point.
00:04:20.010 --> 00:04:20.440 So.
00:04:21.470 --> 00:04:23.856 I think from that perspective and I'll put my hand down,
00:04:23.856 --> 00:04:25.530 sorry, I'm getting squirrely over here.
00:04:25.880 --> 00:04:27.680 Did you the past? You can just jump.
00:04:28.750 --> 00:04:29.820 And it's kind of the thing.
00:04:30.280 --> 00:04:33.047 Y'all could have let me have a soapbox. That's scary. I call
00:04:31.780 --> 00:04:37.792 Yeah, you are. It's your soapbox, Stephanie let you have
00:04:33.047 --> 00:04:34.770 it. What did I call it the other day?
00:04:36.330 --> 00:04:36.840 But it.
00:04:37.792 --> 00:04:38.530 it now.
00:04:38.050 --> 00:04:39.680 What did I? I called it a rate.
00:04:38.820 --> 00:04:42.261 Yeah, I had it engraved with your name on it. Do you? Can you
00:04:40.700 --> 00:04:42.120 Yeah.
00:04:41.080 --> 00:04:41.720 Oh, nice.
00:04:42.261 --> 00:04:44.370 see it still? It's right there. Yeah.
00:04:43.780 --> 00:04:47.830 I think I referred to it as a rage barrel the other day. UM.
00:04:48.280 --> 00:04:49.220 That's amazing.
00:04:51.890 --> 00:04:56.485 So one thing I do wanna say it is in like incumbent on us as
00:04:56.485 --> 00:05:00.929 project managers to trust but verify. I do expect that any
00:05:00.929 --> 00:05:05.599 time something gets moved from code complete over to you know
00:05:05.599 --> 00:05:06.880 in Q or whatever.
00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.204 Just like when we do our code complete checks, it's going
00:05:11.204 --> 00:05:14.395 verify that that is actively there on the site. You can see
00:05:14.395 --> 00:05:17.905 it, you can touch it, you can do all the things and if you notice
00:05:17.905 --> 00:05:21.148 something glaring, that's our point to jump in and you know,
00:05:21.148 --> 00:05:22.850 hey devs, this is the thing fix.
00:05:25.410 --> 00:05:26.350 But as far as.
00:05:25.570 --> 00:05:29.138 So I'm thinking then that this these users need to be assigned
00:05:29.138 --> 00:05:30.780 to y'all, not the developers.
00:05:30.580 --> 00:05:32.970 I think so. I think that's the move.
00:05:31.830 --> 00:05:35.328 And then you guys make bug tickets out of these for the
00:05:35.150 --> 00:05:35.750 Uh-huh.
00:05:35.328 --> 00:05:39.451 developers in the feature level, because that's there's some that
00:05:38.380 --> 00:05:39.240 Exactly.
00:05:39.451 --> 00:05:43.199 I saw and they're they're older ones. This isn't the finger
00:05:39.850 --> 00:05:40.590 I'm down with that.
00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:47.260 pointing thing. This is just how we should do it moving forward.
00:05:47.260 --> 00:05:51.321 There's a bug with account user segmentation. We create that bug
00:05:51.321 --> 00:05:52.320 in that feature.
00:05:52.930 --> 00:05:53.260 Mm-hmm.
00:05:53.270 --> 00:05:55.700 You know, so that's the parent. So we can always roll back in.
00:05:56.570 --> 00:06:00.728 I love that. So if it's assigned at the PM level, then we have
00:05:57.430 --> 00:05:57.800 OK.
00:06:00.728 --> 00:06:04.952 control over it. We can adjust for the hours that are necessary
00:06:04.952 --> 00:06:09.242 and then it as the PM, if you're going in and doing QA time, you
00:06:09.242 --> 00:06:13.334 can control how much time you wanna give the developers to go
00:06:13.334 --> 00:06:17.228 in and do that as well. And if you want both sets of eyes,
00:06:14.570 --> 00:06:15.070 Yeah.
00:06:17.228 --> 00:06:20.990 that's totally fine. But no PM QA time will be credited.
00:06:24.210 --> 00:06:24.470 Or.
00:06:25.770 --> 00:06:28.762 OK. So moving forward, we'll, I'll still make these in the
00:06:28.762 --> 00:06:30.740 same way when I'm doing backlog clean.
00:06:31.770 --> 00:06:34.831 Umm. And then the should be assigned to the PM. Do we wanna
00:06:34.831 --> 00:06:37.994 assign them in the Sprint and then that way the PM can make a
00:06:37.994 --> 00:06:41.157 decision? Actually I'm going to have developer X take on this
00:06:41.157 --> 00:06:44.319 instead of me or I'm gonna look at it, but I'm gonna have the
00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:47.686 developer X go in and spend this time on it or stuff. Do you just
00:06:47.686 --> 00:06:49.880 want it just to be on the PM all the time?
00:06:51.350 --> 00:06:54.800 I I mean I think that we I don't care.
00:06:55.230 --> 00:06:55.640 OK.
00:06:57.170 --> 00:07:00.575 That's my favorite answer to things. You know that I'm
00:07:00.575 --> 00:07:04.290 serious. I like sometimes it's good to just not care. Yeah.
00:07:01.900 --> 00:07:02.330 I.
00:07:03.850 --> 00:07:07.301 I just add, I don't care, just don't. Just the work get done.
00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:06.500 Yeah.
00:07:07.301 --> 00:07:10.362 The hours are good and the clients are paying. I don't
00:07:10.362 --> 00:07:10.640 care.
00:07:11.590 --> 00:07:12.860 Yeah. OK.
00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:14.170 Sweet.
00:07:15.330 --> 00:07:19.647 And so guys with these newer projects, how are the client or
00:07:19.647 --> 00:07:20.850 the clients like?
00:07:21.470 --> 00:07:24.464 Is there general temperature a little easier because things are
00:07:24.464 --> 00:07:25.400 getting done faster.
00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:28.170 Oh yeah.
00:07:27.950 --> 00:07:28.480 I can't.
00:07:29.930 --> 00:07:30.680 Yeah, I.
00:07:29.940 --> 00:07:30.470 I can't.
00:07:31.400 --> 00:07:32.150 Go ahead.
00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:35.719 Sorry, no, I interrupted you. You are. You're going first. Go
00:07:35.719 --> 00:07:35.990 ahead.
00:07:37.760 --> 00:07:43.979 It has been my experience that the time in discovery makes it
00:07:43.979 --> 00:07:47.790 difficult to keep them off the ledge.
00:07:48.230 --> 00:07:54.014 Umm, that, that they're very agitated about the architecture
00:07:54.014 --> 00:07:59.513 phase because a lot of time passes and hours are invested
00:07:59.513 --> 00:08:01.220 and then suddenly.
00:08:02.070 --> 00:08:06.199 When you finally can engage 2 sprints later, your feature
00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:06.840 complete.
00:08:07.510 --> 00:08:07.830 Yeah.
00:08:08.260 --> 00:08:13.096 And so for my part, like I love the process and I don't want
00:08:13.096 --> 00:08:17.852 anybody to get that twisted, I think it is. I think it is a
00:08:13.540 --> 00:08:14.050 No, no.
00:08:17.210 --> 00:08:17.980 Yeah, certainly.
00:08:17.852 --> 00:08:22.687 great approach, but I have to figure out a better way to set
00:08:22.687 --> 00:08:27.682 the expectation, set the stage and and make people comfortable
00:08:27.682 --> 00:08:32.200 with the fact that we are front loading expertise there.
00:08:32.920 --> 00:08:33.260 Mm-hmm.
00:08:35.310 --> 00:08:35.700 Sure.
00:08:37.090 --> 00:08:39.220 Who wants to play a little game?
00:08:37.190 --> 00:08:38.630 And is there one in particular?
00:08:41.110 --> 00:08:41.790 PCs.
00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:46.348 But they're almost done. Oh, but they were just upset because it
00:08:46.348 --> 00:08:49.073 took a lot the the front. But now that it's almost done,
00:08:49.073 --> 00:08:51.750 they're a little more like, OK, is that what it is? OK.
00:08:50.450 --> 00:08:51.650 Umm hmm.
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:56.759 Yeah, and and to be clear, like the front end will get faster
00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:02.078 too and and I get that, but it will always be, it will always
00:08:57.500 --> 00:08:58.120 Hmm.
00:09:02.078 --> 00:09:02.850 be there.
00:09:03.190 --> 00:09:03.580 Yeah.
00:09:03.610 --> 00:09:08.413 Of course. So from that perspective, that is a mindset
00:09:08.413 --> 00:09:13.304 shift that we as the project management team and you've
00:09:13.304 --> 00:09:18.893 probably all heard me say this before, but the only constant in
00:09:18.893 --> 00:09:24.046 agile or in life in general is change. Things are going to
00:09:24.046 --> 00:09:24.570 shift.
00:09:26.490 --> 00:09:30.003 So from that perspective, we need to kind of change our
00:09:30.003 --> 00:09:33.641 mindset in how we go in to manage those expectations from
00:09:33.641 --> 00:09:37.468 the beginning. You know we we always talk about, we're gonna
00:09:37.468 --> 00:09:41.169 go through this discovery process. It's expected to take X
00:09:41.169 --> 00:09:45.309 amount of time. This is not new. Now we need to flip the script a
00:09:45.309 --> 00:09:48.885 little bit and say we're gonna go through this discovery
00:09:48.885 --> 00:09:52.523 process. It'll take expected this amount of time and then
00:09:52.523 --> 00:09:55.974 we're going to go into an architecture phase from this
00:09:55.974 --> 00:09:56.350 phase.
00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:00.299 You're not going to see a ton of output right away, but this is
00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:03.495 very, very important for everything that we're doing
00:10:03.495 --> 00:10:07.354 here, and essentially what we're doing is we're measuring twice
00:10:07.354 --> 00:10:11.032 so that we can cut once this is gonna save you time and it's
00:10:11.032 --> 00:10:14.589 going to save you budget down the road. It's going to feel
00:10:14.589 --> 00:10:18.448 like a little bit of a black box for a while. Trust us, we have
00:10:18.448 --> 00:10:22.006 this. We've done it. We've proven this. I just want to set
00:10:22.006 --> 00:10:25.563 that expectation with you up front. Obviously, you can say
00:10:25.563 --> 00:10:26.950 that in whatever voice.
00:10:27.010 --> 00:10:31.138 Or whatever you want, but that's the message that we need to get
00:10:31.138 --> 00:10:34.758 across to everybody and manage that expectation from the
00:10:34.758 --> 00:10:38.759 beginning so that it's not just this cumbersome time frame and
00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:42.442 be communicative, tell them every at least every two days
00:10:42.442 --> 00:10:46.633 kind of this is the feature that we're working on in architecture
00:10:46.633 --> 00:10:50.253 right now. At last check, we've accomplished X amount of
00:10:50.253 --> 00:10:53.937 percentage of this as long as you are keeping up with the
00:10:53.937 --> 00:10:57.874 communication and you're not just letting them kind of wonder
00:10:57.874 --> 00:10:58.890 what's going on.
00:10:59.190 --> 00:11:03.727 We can literally take a month or more to get through that, and if
00:11:03.727 --> 00:11:08.126 they have a deep understanding of how this is a net benefit for
00:11:08.126 --> 00:11:12.457 them, they're never going to be upset about that. The problems
00:11:12.457 --> 00:11:16.237 tend to come up when we don't communicate, and that is
00:11:16.237 --> 00:11:20.293 something that can be said across every project across the
00:11:20.293 --> 00:11:23.180 board. Communication in this role is key.
00:11:24.760 --> 00:11:26.370 Hmm, very true.
00:11:25.560 --> 00:11:28.240 Back off my rage barrel. Micki, over to you.
00:11:30.570 --> 00:11:34.388 Gonna provide some anecdotal support for exactly what you're
00:11:34.388 --> 00:11:38.206 saying. Because PBC was kind of a very interesting situation
00:11:38.206 --> 00:11:42.086 where we had that excessively long, you know, architecture as
00:11:42.086 --> 00:11:45.090 a result of them doing initial prepaid discuss.
00:11:47.800 --> 00:11:48.180 No, no.
00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:48.870 With with.
00:11:48.270 --> 00:11:50.920 All this time to ohh my.
00:11:48.890 --> 00:11:49.250 Ohh.
00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:51.710 Drop shot their first second.
00:11:50.520 --> 00:11:51.740 We lost you for a second.
00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.124 OK, so we had prepaid discovery and we spent a ton of time like
00:11:56.124 --> 00:12:00.006 while they were doing data clean up and looking at things to like
00:12:00.006 --> 00:12:03.240 hash everything out, get everything in the backlog and
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:06.887 you know it happened really fast after that. But because they
00:12:06.887 --> 00:12:10.122 expected that delay, they're utterly thrilled. They're
00:12:10.122 --> 00:12:13.709 singing my praises to every person that they can speak to on
00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:12.460 Are they?
00:12:13.709 --> 00:12:17.414 their end about how well this is going, how much communication
00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:17.040 Hell yeah, dude.
00:12:17.414 --> 00:12:21.120 they're getting, how much they know about exactly where we are
00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.590 and what we're doing and.
00:12:22.520 --> 00:12:23.660 Dude.
00:12:22.970 --> 00:12:23.340 Like.
00:12:24.270 --> 00:12:26.994 It's working really well and that's because they have that
00:12:26.994 --> 00:12:29.996 expectation that this was gonna be a little while. And then when
00:12:29.996 --> 00:12:31.150 we did it, it's like bam.
00:12:35.370 --> 00:12:37.280 Reged was a very similar.
00:12:38.330 --> 00:12:42.937 Vote UM. Interestingly enough, they came to us with a almost, I
00:12:42.937 --> 00:12:47.185 mean obviously not, because that's not how the contract is
00:12:47.185 --> 00:12:51.216 written, but from their perspective they were trying to
00:12:51.216 --> 00:12:53.160 do this within a fixed bid.
00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:53.810 Sure.
00:12:55.930 --> 00:13:01.801 And we spent. I wanna say it was 32 hours on discovery design
00:13:01.801 --> 00:13:02.180 and.
00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:07.840 That Stephanie, drop off everyone there too.
00:13:08.540 --> 00:13:08.980 Umm.
00:13:09.140 --> 00:13:09.550 Yep.
00:13:09.950 --> 00:13:14.258 How come anytime someone gets a good old thing going, they're
00:13:14.258 --> 00:13:15.300 mikes dropping.
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:16.870 Teams is just.
00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.230 Teams is evil.
00:13:17.020 --> 00:13:19.995 I should just start talking about a thing and then I'll drop
00:13:17.620 --> 00:13:18.580 Messing up.
00:13:19.995 --> 00:13:20.190 too.
00:13:23.380 --> 00:13:24.160 Teams is just.
00:13:24.950 --> 00:13:26.890 Died, apparently for Stephanie.
00:13:26.950 --> 00:13:28.380 Team says no more.
00:13:31.850 --> 00:13:32.250 Well.
00:13:33.060 --> 00:13:33.580 Well.
00:13:36.130 --> 00:13:36.450 OK.
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.336 Well, to Canada, add to what Charlie was saying about
00:13:40.336 --> 00:13:44.274 discovery and the length of that having a big impact on client
00:13:44.274 --> 00:13:47.900 temperature. We're we're seeing that right now with Nova.
00:13:44.500 --> 00:13:45.260 Yeah, here it's here.
00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:48.980 OK.
00:13:50.370 --> 00:13:53.250 Well, Novak Nova, your power went out.
00:13:50.920 --> 00:13:51.780 My power went out.
00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:54.540 Your power went out.
00:13:54.110 --> 00:13:54.830 Ohh.
00:13:54.380 --> 00:13:54.610 Yeah.
00:13:57.550 --> 00:13:59.700 I didn't just get mad and be like I'm done.
00:14:03.820 --> 00:14:04.360 Sorry guys.
00:14:04.650 --> 00:14:06.300 Let's hear about Nova real quick there.
00:14:06.920 --> 00:14:10.710 Well, we had our our meeting to go over the RE estimates earlier
00:14:10.710 --> 00:14:14.383 today and one of the things that they called out was they were
00:14:14.383 --> 00:14:17.939 expecting discovery to be a two week process and it was much
00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:18.320 Ohh.
00:14:17.939 --> 00:14:18.930 longer than that.
00:14:19.690 --> 00:14:20.020 Sure.
00:14:20.070 --> 00:14:20.550 And.
00:14:21.640 --> 00:14:25.252 That's one of the big things that ended up, uh, kind of
00:14:25.252 --> 00:14:29.250 pushing their budget, too, was they spent a lot on discovery.
00:14:32.570 --> 00:14:35.520 What did they do? We do. You know why?
00:14:36.550 --> 00:14:40.840 We're diving into that. I wasn't on the project for discovery.
00:14:38.730 --> 00:14:40.440 There, if you want me to.
00:14:41.150 --> 00:14:42.360 Yeah, shell bell.
00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:41.730 But.
00:14:42.010 --> 00:14:46.271 To talk. So what? What their project. The big biggest thing
00:14:43.670 --> 00:14:45.550 Always want to hear you talking. Kidding me?
00:14:46.271 --> 00:14:50.603 to delay discovery was internal decisions on their end going
00:14:50.603 --> 00:14:55.219 through discovery, we uncovered some additional scopes, some for
00:14:55.219 --> 00:14:58.912 some features that require clarification from their
00:14:58.912 --> 00:15:03.599 leadership. And then in addition to that, they are essentially, I
00:15:03.599 --> 00:15:07.931 don't know if they finished it yet or not. They were redoing
00:15:07.931 --> 00:15:11.340 basically their entire NetSuite data structure.
00:15:11.880 --> 00:15:15.587 Which held up a lot of features and confirming you know what
00:15:15.587 --> 00:15:19.354 we're going to be syncing with fields we need as well as just
00:15:19.354 --> 00:15:22.574 their general products information. So you know each
00:15:22.574 --> 00:15:26.341 week we would meet, we would finalize sections, we would come
00:15:26.341 --> 00:15:29.805 up with a question and they would be, they would need to
00:15:29.805 --> 00:15:33.268 take it back to their team or they're working with their
00:15:33.268 --> 00:15:37.096 NetSuite representatives to get their data structure finalized
00:15:37.096 --> 00:15:39.770 so they can make a decision on the feature.
00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:45.414 So I mean a lot, a lot of what delayed it was just, you know
00:15:45.414 --> 00:15:48.090 stuff they had to figure out on their end and.
00:15:47.290 --> 00:15:48.640 They stinking *****.
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.885 Yeah. And The thing is, it's throughout the discovery
00:15:51.885 --> 00:15:55.068 process, there never really was a concern around, you know, the
00:15:55.068 --> 00:15:58.002 the time it's taking. They seemed to understand, you know,
00:15:58.002 --> 00:16:00.090 this is stuff that we have to figure out.
00:16:01.400 --> 00:16:04.524 We don't have an answer right now. We gotta figure this out
00:16:04.524 --> 00:16:07.805 and we'll get back to you. But you know, in today's call, they
00:16:07.805 --> 00:16:10.773 talk about a two week window, which was never, you know,
00:16:10.773 --> 00:16:13.377 really brought up at all throughout the discovery
00:16:13.377 --> 00:16:16.554 process. So it was kind of a kind of a shock to us that they
00:16:16.554 --> 00:16:19.730 referenced that and and never brought up any concerns about.
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.858 How long the process was taking during the actual discovery
00:16:23.858 --> 00:16:24.590 process, but.
00:16:26.640 --> 00:16:28.870 Yeah. So just a little background there.
00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:39.090 Alright, Charlie, what do you got?
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:45.729 So I I am on board with what Mickey was saying about creating
00:16:45.729 --> 00:16:48.850 the expectations and I think that.
00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:53.723 That one of the things that we're learning as a group is
00:16:53.723 --> 00:16:57.547 what that expectation should be because the first couple of
00:16:57.547 --> 00:17:01.180 times through, we didn't know what we were getting into.
00:17:01.390 --> 00:17:01.790 Hmm.
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.691 One thing that remains problematic that I talked about
00:17:06.691 --> 00:17:10.689 a little bit with Shelton and I talked about a little bit with
00:17:10.689 --> 00:17:12.530 Stephanie, but still sort of.
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:19.617 I don't know. Brainstorming solutions is that the new
00:17:19.617 --> 00:17:26.524 discovery and architecture process inherently occupies more
00:17:26.524 --> 00:17:32.050 hours than the old. Discovery only process and.
00:17:32.790 --> 00:17:38.260 And so while it pays dividends and results in, I think a net
00:17:38.260 --> 00:17:43.281 improved outcome in terms of overall project hours, the
00:17:43.281 --> 00:17:46.330 optics on a PSR are pretty rough.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:54.309 Umm, where you you know you've got, say 13 hours in your budget
00:17:54.309 --> 00:17:56.720 and you run 60 or 80.
00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:04.213 And by the end of the project, you may be back balanced, but
00:18:04.213 --> 00:18:09.472 that's a that's a process getting there and one of the
00:18:07.530 --> 00:18:07.880 Mm-hmm.
00:18:09.472 --> 00:18:14.923 ideas that I had that may well be a lousy one is that we
00:18:14.923 --> 00:18:19.130 apportion some percentage of the estimated.
00:18:19.890 --> 00:18:25.100 And re estimate it. I guess I should say feature hours into.
00:18:26.250 --> 00:18:31.374 Uh, discovery and architecture time such that. OK, well, we
00:18:31.374 --> 00:18:33.680 estimated that as a 10 and.
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.771 One hour of that, 1010% of it, or two hours, 20% whatever, but
00:18:38.771 --> 00:18:43.032 eight percentage of that moves from the dev line in EP to the
00:18:43.032 --> 00:18:47.294 architecture line so that we have those costs covered because
00:18:47.294 --> 00:18:51.487 if we don't do them up front, the developers have to do them
00:18:51.487 --> 00:18:55.817 later and it is less coherent and less organized. But the fact
00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:53.620 Umm.
00:18:55.817 --> 00:19:00.354 is we are nevertheless expending those hours on the front end and
00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:00.070 Sure.
00:19:00.354 --> 00:19:02.760 the EP doesn't doesn't reflect it.
00:19:05.750 --> 00:19:08.130 Yeah, an interesting point clinty.
00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:14.889 It's a bit of a shift back to your original question around
00:19:14.360 --> 00:19:14.740 Mm-hmm.
00:19:14.889 --> 00:19:18.612 QA, but one thing that I'm I struggle with a lot on the
00:19:18.612 --> 00:19:21.870 connect side. I'd even go into the pay hub side.
00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:26.513 It can be really difficult when you're dealing with an
00:19:26.513 --> 00:19:27.550 integration to know.
00:19:28.370 --> 00:19:32.295 When The thing is working as intended, because an integration
00:19:32.295 --> 00:19:35.080 could be, uh, we wanna bring over products.
00:19:35.810 --> 00:19:40.048 OK, all the product is here are the product mappings correct and
00:19:36.320 --> 00:19:36.640 Umm.
00:19:40.048 --> 00:19:44.090 that could be enough, but then you deal with what what if the
00:19:44.090 --> 00:19:47.220 mappings are correct but the data is incorrect?
00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:51.380 And this comes up all the time in the invoices with payment
00:19:48.490 --> 00:19:48.900 Hmm.
00:19:51.380 --> 00:19:51.600 hub.
00:19:52.270 --> 00:19:56.269 Where the invoice data isn't matching the expected output and
00:19:56.269 --> 00:20:00.139 so we put a lot of that on the client to do testing, but we
00:20:00.139 --> 00:20:03.945 don't have a standardized testing method and we don't have
00:20:03.945 --> 00:20:07.686 that for connect either. Integration projects in general.
00:20:07.686 --> 00:20:10.330 So I'm curious what everybody thinks on.
00:20:11.750 --> 00:20:15.264 How we could improve that? Because as much as we do have to
00:20:15.264 --> 00:20:17.080 put some of this on the client.
00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:29.030 Hmm.
00:20:29.100 --> 00:20:29.380 Thing.
00:20:30.710 --> 00:20:34.279 You know, when it comes down to who's responsible or how could
00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:37.848 this have been caught it it gets really difficult to determine
00:20:37.848 --> 00:20:41.361 that because it's not always clear cut. It's not like ohh, if
00:20:41.361 --> 00:20:44.760 we had spent more time we would have caught this. It's it's
00:20:43.510 --> 00:20:43.920 Yeah.
00:20:44.760 --> 00:20:45.440 sometimes a.
00:20:46.610 --> 00:20:50.188 And issue of how thorough something's being tested
00:20:50.188 --> 00:20:54.679 alongside what? What is the goal of the test? Is it just to see
00:20:54.679 --> 00:20:59.169 that the integrations working or is it to see that we can break
00:20:59.169 --> 00:21:03.169 it or you know and who's? Where's the responsibility lie
00:21:03.169 --> 00:21:03.800 for that?
00:21:06.290 --> 00:21:09.207 So just open the thoughts, because I that's a part of the
00:21:09.207 --> 00:21:11.520 project that I haven't quite figured out and.
00:21:12.250 --> 00:21:14.752 Amy can probably relate to this a lot of the projects they get
00:21:14.752 --> 00:21:16.500 into user acceptance testing and they just.
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.510 Stick around because we're just.
00:21:20.650 --> 00:21:21.090 Hmm.
00:21:21.300 --> 00:21:25.019 Testing, finding, potentially finding issues, potentially not.
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:28.560 And then once we go live, then we find issues because it's.
00:21:29.090 --> 00:21:29.470 Yeah.
00:21:29.690 --> 00:21:30.390 Use live.
00:21:33.700 --> 00:21:38.012 What do you think? What do you think would be the when I think
00:21:38.012 --> 00:21:38.970 about it like?
00:21:40.600 --> 00:21:42.050 It would be an interesting thing.
00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:45.810 Maybe to and I I don't know.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.758 If it's the right answer or not, so I'm just standing out there,
00:21:50.758 --> 00:21:53.092 what do we think about? Like if we had them put up the
00:21:53.092 --> 00:21:55.681 acceptance criteria, well, it does. Acceptance criteria help
00:21:55.681 --> 00:21:57.930 at all and would it help if it was coming from them?
00:21:59.080 --> 00:21:59.350 If.
00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:00.770 Think that.
00:22:00.490 --> 00:22:01.120 My.
00:22:02.180 --> 00:22:02.610 Yeah, go ahead.
00:22:02.310 --> 00:22:02.800 Typo.
00:22:04.040 --> 00:22:07.519 I was gonna. I was gonna say my theory is that we probably will
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.726 want to. I know this is coming up with, like, a lot of the
00:22:10.726 --> 00:22:13.988 Level 3 documentation we're building. But my theory is that
00:22:13.988 --> 00:22:17.304 if we can standardize and this can be much more difficult on
00:22:17.304 --> 00:22:20.620 integration, but on payment hub is an example, standardized.
00:22:20.620 --> 00:22:23.936 What is the acceptance criteria for our standard features? I
00:22:23.936 --> 00:22:27.143 think that would be helpful because then you could have an
00:22:27.143 --> 00:22:30.513 Excel spreadsheet where you hand it off to the client, say it
00:22:30.513 --> 00:22:32.470 doesn't work the way you expect it.
00:22:33.820 --> 00:22:36.892 When you're dealing with a really custom project, yeah,
00:22:36.892 --> 00:22:40.403 that, that, that's where it gets more difficult, because either
00:22:40.403 --> 00:22:42.927 we're gonna have to make modifications to our
00:22:42.927 --> 00:22:46.109 out-of-the-box testing list or the client's gonna have to
00:22:46.109 --> 00:22:47.700 generate that, in which case.
00:22:47.540 --> 00:22:48.030 Hmm.
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.820 You know the results are gonna vary from client to client.
00:22:52.360 --> 00:22:52.770 Yeah.
00:22:57.490 --> 00:22:59.931 What do you think, Shelton? Have you been through? You've been
00:22:59.931 --> 00:23:01.480 through one or two of these things now.
00:23:05.660 --> 00:23:09.540 So one thing that I've been trying to focus on more lately
00:23:09.540 --> 00:23:10.790 and discoveries is.
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.722 Presenting what we have captured and getting them to tell me
00:23:15.722 --> 00:23:19.586 what's wrong rather than asking a bunch of questions over and
00:23:19.586 --> 00:23:23.388 over, dragging out, you know what we're supposed to be doing
00:23:23.388 --> 00:23:27.190 and saying? Here's what we have. What's wrong with it rather
00:23:23.580 --> 00:23:24.030 Sure.
00:23:27.190 --> 00:23:31.116 than, you know, just a bunch of questions that they may or may
00:23:31.116 --> 00:23:35.230 not know the answer to. And, you know, sometimes this can lead to
00:23:35.230 --> 00:23:39.094 someone getting a bunch of ideas about what they want and and
00:23:39.094 --> 00:23:42.460 scope creep. And that's something you have to wrangle
00:23:42.460 --> 00:23:43.270 back in. But.
00:23:43.370 --> 00:23:47.300 Within at for example, they left a lot of.
00:23:48.230 --> 00:23:53.339 Open-ended items. Uh for some of the features and making and I
00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:54.880 essentially had to.
00:23:55.190 --> 00:23:56.760 Our corn making, that's awesome.
00:23:55.910 --> 00:23:59.985 Tell them. Tell them like this is what we have. Is this right
00:23:59.985 --> 00:24:04.323 or not? And essentially cut them off from, you know, continuously
00:24:04.323 --> 00:24:08.464 expanding on what they want and basically accepting, you know,
00:24:08.464 --> 00:24:12.605 this is what we have captured. This is phase one. This is what
00:24:12.605 --> 00:24:14.380 we're gonna do rather than.
00:24:15.860 --> 00:24:19.173 You know, building it out and then then coming back later and
00:24:19.173 --> 00:24:22.165 saying, you know, well, actually, we met this, he meant
00:24:22.165 --> 00:24:25.478 that it's just being more direct with what we're doing rather
00:24:25.478 --> 00:24:26.280 than, you know.
00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:29.630 Placing the ball entirely in their court.
00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:32.370 Yeah, because we're professionals, right?
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:38.485 Yeah, exactly. And and rock, for example, they they've been very
00:24:38.485 --> 00:24:40.370 open to suggestions they have.
00:24:39.590 --> 00:24:42.030 Mickey, what was that little cheaper something.
00:24:41.730 --> 00:24:45.091 Ohh I just because when Shelton was when Shelton was saying cut
00:24:45.091 --> 00:24:48.242 off, I was about to be like yeah, literally cause I had to.
00:24:48.242 --> 00:24:51.499 And then you're like, oh, yeah, cause we're professional. And
00:24:50.030 --> 00:24:50.620 Oh really?
00:24:51.499 --> 00:24:54.597 I'm like, yeah, well, I'm cutting off the client, sit down
00:24:51.610 --> 00:24:52.280 Ohh.
00:24:54.597 --> 00:24:55.490 and shut up, Sir.
00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:58.942 No worries. I'm seriously meaning like, you know, like no,
00:24:58.942 --> 00:25:00.950 not a single one of our clients.
00:25:01.930 --> 00:25:05.897 That's not true. I'd say 90% of our clients would come to us if
00:25:05.897 --> 00:25:07.880 they knew what they wanted 100%.
00:25:09.990 --> 00:25:12.690 Right, right. And it's just.
00:25:12.530 --> 00:25:12.720 The.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.810 They knew that they just do it right.
00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:17.921 That. Yeah. And then that's what they're paying us for is to is
00:25:17.230 --> 00:25:18.000 Yeah.
00:25:17.921 --> 00:25:22.002 to give them guidance and that's something that, you know, I've
00:25:22.002 --> 00:25:26.211 been trying to focus on more is, you know, providing our guidance
00:25:23.390 --> 00:25:23.820 Hell yeah.
00:25:26.211 --> 00:25:30.355 rather than you know, their and expertise of something them just
00:25:30.355 --> 00:25:33.480 making up stuff and expecting us to build it so.
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:34.330 Mm-hmm.
00:25:35.250 --> 00:25:38.190 But that's just from my personal view.
00:25:35.930 --> 00:25:36.300 And.
00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:42.377 I will say something here that may not be a popular opinion. I
00:25:42.377 --> 00:25:46.167 do think that having both the PM and BA together on Discovery has
00:25:46.167 --> 00:25:49.899 some some perks because Shelton and I were able to tag team with
00:25:49.899 --> 00:25:53.345 Rock and Shelton. That's what the question and they're like
00:25:53.345 --> 00:25:56.732 spitballing. And I'm like, I support this thought that you
00:25:56.732 --> 00:26:00.350 just said and here's why. And because we were able to tag team
00:25:57.570 --> 00:25:58.000 Mm-hmm.
00:26:00.350 --> 00:26:04.139 it back and forth. They were not only asking questions, answering
00:26:04.139 --> 00:26:07.240 them, they felt like they were getting expert advice.
00:26:08.350 --> 00:26:11.680 And that we were all like on the same page.
00:26:12.730 --> 00:26:13.120 Sure.
00:26:12.850 --> 00:26:14.440 It was. It was great, you know.
00:26:16.780 --> 00:26:20.343 And I I don't know if that answered your question exactly.
00:26:16.950 --> 00:26:17.720 That is wonderful.
00:26:20.343 --> 00:26:21.430 Daniel. Uh, sorry.
00:26:20.650 --> 00:26:24.895 I don't know if I had a specific question to start, just kind of
00:26:24.895 --> 00:26:28.160 want. I'm just very fascinated with this process.
00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:33.220 Lately, and all the all the feedback has been really cool
00:26:33.220 --> 00:26:36.523 about the architecture because like I say, I'm seeing all only
00:26:36.523 --> 00:26:39.825 upsides, right? Like exceeds are getting in lock like like all
00:26:39.825 --> 00:26:43.128 these like crazy things that to me, I'm like, yeah, yeah. But,
00:26:43.128 --> 00:26:46.220 you know, I'm not talking to these clients every day. So I
00:26:46.220 --> 00:26:49.365 was wondering like what the impact was and like, how we can
00:26:49.365 --> 00:26:52.563 kind of clean some of this up and stuff. And I see your hand
00:26:52.563 --> 00:26:54.450 is up. I'm sorry. What's up, buddy?
00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:56.800 Can you guys hear me OK?
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:57.500 Yeah.
00:26:57.990 --> 00:26:58.200 Umm.
00:26:58.090 --> 00:27:01.610 OK, laptop microphone all very strange.
00:27:01.950 --> 00:27:06.965 Umm, so one of the things I was kind of thinking and I don't
00:27:06.965 --> 00:27:08.280 know if this is.
00:27:09.050 --> 00:27:14.189 Squarely or not, but one of the we don't usually talk about QA
00:27:14.189 --> 00:27:18.839 or UAT until the end of a project. So what about kind of
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:23.815 shifting that and bringing that into a little bit more light
00:27:23.815 --> 00:27:27.730 with the client talk, talk about it during the?
00:27:28.900 --> 00:27:33.602 Risk meeting. Talk about it during the kickoff or throughout
00:27:33.602 --> 00:27:38.073 the discovery process and be like this is the standard QA
00:27:38.073 --> 00:27:42.389 that we do. This is the percentage piece that we do and
00:27:42.389 --> 00:27:46.783 these are what we're the acceptance criteria that we are
00:27:46.783 --> 00:27:51.716 looking for and it only covers our out of box customizations so
00:27:51.716 --> 00:27:56.650 that Mister client, if you want more in depth QA if you want to
00:27:56.650 --> 00:27:59.810 make sure that everything is like pixel.
00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:02.981 Perfect and blah blah blah. We need from you a couple of
00:28:02.981 --> 00:28:06.082 things. Acceptance criteria on your custom features, and
00:28:04.770 --> 00:28:05.150 Mm-hmm.
00:28:06.082 --> 00:28:09.347 there's likely going to be a change request associated with
00:28:09.347 --> 00:28:12.720 the amount of time that we're going to need to validate that.
00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:21.174 Or do you think that that is potentially taking a Hornets
00:28:21.174 --> 00:28:23.270 nest before it's necessary?
00:28:22.670 --> 00:28:26.832 I do well. I mean, I don't see that there's the two lines
00:28:26.832 --> 00:28:31.138 there, right? I mean, and let I'm I'm. I'm Michelle shocked
00:28:31.138 --> 00:28:31.640 guy so.
00:28:32.770 --> 00:28:37.026 When we talk about QA often I know the first question we get
00:28:37.026 --> 00:28:41.282 from clients cause I've gotten this myself with over a dozen
00:28:41.282 --> 00:28:41.910 times is.
00:28:43.650 --> 00:28:46.270 Shouldn't that be on you? If your stuff doesn't work right?
00:28:48.850 --> 00:28:52.355 Ohh yes and no, it's custom development. If it doesn't work
00:28:51.580 --> 00:28:54.871 Oh. Oh. Stephanie. Yeah. Stephanie, I know the I know the
00:28:52.355 --> 00:28:53.290 out of box sure.
00:28:54.871 --> 00:28:58.445 truth. But I'm just saying from a client's perspective, that's
00:28:58.445 --> 00:29:01.963 what they're saying. So, in, in saying that, what is the term
00:28:59.730 --> 00:29:00.270 Yes.
00:29:01.963 --> 00:29:05.708 for that to the client? Cuz that to me would be the difference of
00:29:05.708 --> 00:29:07.410 kicking a Hornets nest or not.
00:29:07.850 --> 00:29:08.820 Hmm.
00:29:08.910 --> 00:29:12.199 You know, like if we have something that's not just a
00:29:12.199 --> 00:29:15.852 canned response, that's a real deal thing. That's like, yo,
00:29:15.852 --> 00:29:19.445 dog. Like what Mickey was talking about in these discovery
00:29:19.445 --> 00:29:23.282 processes where we can give them this information and it isn't
00:29:23.282 --> 00:29:24.500 combative. It isn't.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:25.440 You know.
00:29:26.430 --> 00:29:29.285 Because, I mean, I've also gotten a lot from that question,
00:29:29.285 --> 00:29:32.188 like even for like, reasonable folks are like, OK well, so I
00:29:32.188 --> 00:29:35.187 guess if that's just the way it is, that's just the way it is.
00:29:35.187 --> 00:29:38.280 And they're like, you know, like when you get a bum deal, right.
00:29:38.900 --> 00:29:39.100 Yeah.
00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:43.367 But we we're not giving a bum deal. That's the end of the day.
00:29:43.367 --> 00:29:46.837 We're not. It's just the reality of what it is. It's what the
00:29:46.837 --> 00:29:50.140 contract is. It's what we go into in the front. We're not.
00:29:50.140 --> 00:29:53.778 We're not given any left-handed handshakes and then knife in the
00:29:53.778 --> 00:29:57.081 right hand. It's just it is exactly what you're saying. It
00:29:57.081 --> 00:30:00.607 is custom development. How can we get that conversation to the
00:30:00.607 --> 00:30:03.350 client in a way that is ultimately positive and.
00:30:03.910 --> 00:30:05.540 Uh, you know fruitful.
00:30:07.340 --> 00:30:07.990 So.
00:30:09.530 --> 00:30:10.250 I mean.
00:30:11.540 --> 00:30:16.749 This isn't necessarily inherent to scrum, but it's inherent to
00:30:16.749 --> 00:30:22.206 agile. In you know, in a broader sense is that the estimate to do
00:30:22.206 --> 00:30:22.950 the work.
00:30:24.070 --> 00:30:29.367 Should include the estimate to test the work. It is reasonable
00:30:28.070 --> 00:30:28.520 Hmm.
00:30:29.367 --> 00:30:34.411 for a client to assume that if we are delivering a feature,
00:30:34.411 --> 00:30:35.840 we've checked it.
00:30:36.260 --> 00:30:37.210 Hmm, I agree.
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:42.182 And while it's not reasonable to assume that everything will
00:30:42.182 --> 00:30:47.021 always be 100% on 1st iteration right like ohh that's 90% sweet,
00:30:46.530 --> 00:30:46.820 Sure.
00:30:47.021 --> 00:30:51.712 we did great. Now we're gonna take another pass at it and come
00:30:51.712 --> 00:30:54.020 closer. And that's the process.
00:30:54.520 --> 00:30:59.527 Umm but but I I I think we get ourselves into a variety of
00:30:59.527 --> 00:31:04.788 problems if we come back and say ohh that I mean that was the
00:31:04.788 --> 00:31:09.709 estimate but it it it didn't include looking to see if it
00:31:09.709 --> 00:31:14.801 worked and I know I'm taking what's been said to the absurd
00:31:13.130 --> 00:31:13.550 Yeah.
00:31:14.801 --> 00:31:20.231 and that that's not exactly what was being stated but I I think
00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:16.050 Yeah. No, no, no.
00:31:20.231 --> 00:31:24.050 that the due diligence of having checked is.
00:31:24.430 --> 00:31:27.383 A reasonable expectation that, like you're saying, Daniel, if
00:31:27.383 --> 00:31:30.526 if we don't do that, it'll leave people with a bad taste in their
00:31:30.526 --> 00:31:33.384 mouth, and they may just say ohh, well, I guess that's just
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:32.190 Mm-hmm.
00:31:33.384 --> 00:31:35.860 the way it is, but they won't be thrilled about it.
00:31:34.620 --> 00:31:34.990 Yeah.
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.075 Yeah, yeah, that's what happens. You know, the, the, the
00:31:40.075 --> 00:31:44.290 terrible, the terrible, will fight us and it's bad. And we've
00:31:44.290 --> 00:31:48.301 all seen that. And then the reasonable will just be bobbed
00:31:48.301 --> 00:31:50.680 and we don't want either of those.
00:31:49.370 --> 00:31:49.760 Yeah.
00:32:01.410 --> 00:32:03.460 So I I had a quick question.
00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:07.370 Just for my knowledge.
00:32:08.710 --> 00:32:12.321 With this, when projects and items are getting pushed up to
00:32:12.321 --> 00:32:15.752 stage, I mean how many classes would you say or actively
00:32:15.752 --> 00:32:18.220 testing what gets pushed up rather than?
00:32:19.090 --> 00:32:20.410 You know, waiting until.
00:32:21.450 --> 00:32:22.410 The last.
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.130 You mean like real UAT?
00:32:23.390 --> 00:32:24.720 Yeah, yeah.
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.000 That's a great question.
00:32:30.320 --> 00:32:36.680 I think I think that ones tough to assess because you know if if
00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:41.769 we have, let's say a historic project with a lot of
00:32:41.769 --> 00:32:43.530 interdependencies.
00:32:45.070 --> 00:32:50.212 We may wind up hitting all the testing all at once, all at the
00:32:50.212 --> 00:32:55.109 end, which is certainly less than ideal versus you know the
00:32:55.109 --> 00:33:00.088 new architecture. I feel like I've had new things on on PCs.
00:33:00.088 --> 00:33:04.740 I've had new things that could be tested every few days.
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.862 And and so we're much more on the framework moving forward.
00:33:06.750 --> 00:33:07.170 Mm-hmm.
00:33:10.862 --> 00:33:15.869 We're much more in a continuous release attitude. Well, I I know
00:33:15.869 --> 00:33:20.414 it's not really continuous release, but like we're doing a
00:33:20.414 --> 00:33:23.880 lot of builds and we're delivering succinct.
00:33:24.730 --> 00:33:29.375 Features UM that are testable on a more frequent basis, and So
00:33:29.375 --> 00:33:34.241 what we could do in the past may be different from what we can do
00:33:34.241 --> 00:33:38.960 in the future and by we I mean us and our clients collectively.
00:33:43.520 --> 00:33:45.200 Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense.
00:33:56.850 --> 00:33:59.510 So I'm still trying to figure out.
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:05.686 Like the best way, if we're like kind of tasking out the QA and
00:34:05.686 --> 00:34:06.450 everything.
00:34:07.860 --> 00:34:09.090 I do think that we should.
00:34:10.060 --> 00:34:14.901 Talk about it with each feature because it is a percentage, just
00:34:14.901 --> 00:34:19.593 like we do with PM time, but we usually kind of in our meeting
00:34:19.593 --> 00:34:24.211 notes or at least I do. And I'm curious on everyone else take
00:34:24.211 --> 00:34:28.158 when I'm doing like meeting notes or my Sprint based
00:34:28.158 --> 00:34:32.776 invoicing, any of that kind of stuff, I kind of lumped the PM
00:34:32.776 --> 00:34:35.010 and QA time all into one line.
00:34:36.530 --> 00:34:40.687 What do you guys think? The client temperature would be like
00:34:40.687 --> 00:34:45.048 if we split that out and showed them explicitly like what we're
00:34:45.048 --> 00:34:46.820 working on in terms of QA?
00:34:48.150 --> 00:34:52.411 Especially if we're ticketing it at ticketing it out because you
00:34:52.411 --> 00:34:56.345 know, like from from my reports that I give my clients, I'm
00:34:56.345 --> 00:35:00.147 doing that export out of Azure for the closed work in the
00:35:00.147 --> 00:35:04.081 Sprint and then matching that up to the time in EP and then
00:35:04.081 --> 00:35:07.358 matching that up to the PR so that they have like
00:35:07.358 --> 00:35:10.964 corresponding documentation where they can see all the
00:35:10.964 --> 00:35:15.160 details. Do you think it would be advantageous to actually show
00:35:15.160 --> 00:35:19.487 them like these are the features that were queued? So this should
00:35:19.487 --> 00:35:21.060 be ready for you to UAT.
00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:24.670 Chester. Is that getting too complicated on our processes?
00:35:26.900 --> 00:35:27.710 I think it would be.
00:35:28.530 --> 00:35:32.320 Overcomplicating it in EP, but I do agree that the Azure exports
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:35.876 are useful to kind of display that information and I'll I'll
00:35:35.876 --> 00:35:39.432 break it out if I notice that a particular feature is taking
00:35:39.432 --> 00:35:40.190 longer to QA.
00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:40.650 Hmm.
00:35:41.190 --> 00:35:45.524 I definitely do break that out, like Como has this with the auto
00:35:45.524 --> 00:35:49.525 payment and it's taking a lot of time of Jim's time to like
00:35:49.525 --> 00:35:53.459 resolve some of it. So I broke that out to its own EP line
00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:53.070 Mm-hmm.
00:35:53.459 --> 00:35:57.060 item, but when it's just like normal testing, I don't
00:35:57.060 --> 00:35:59.660 generally I just keep it under the QA.
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:00.790 OK.
00:36:01.180 --> 00:36:03.020 I can see it being featured level though.
00:36:01.570 --> 00:36:02.210 I like.
00:36:05.330 --> 00:36:10.922 I like having the QA section to track the time in EP. I'm
00:36:10.922 --> 00:36:13.140 perhaps different than.
00:36:14.150 --> 00:36:19.921 Then then others on the Azure component in as much as if I am
00:36:19.921 --> 00:36:25.878 doing it as the PM, I don't need the separate ticket because if
00:36:25.878 --> 00:36:27.740 it's deployed to QA.
00:36:29.180 --> 00:36:33.685 It's been deployed and if it's in QA I'm working on it and if
00:36:33.685 --> 00:36:38.189 it's past QA, I'm done so that if I'm handling it, the ticket
00:36:38.189 --> 00:36:42.912 itself becomes redundant because all the information is captured
00:36:42.912 --> 00:36:45.600 in the state of the original ticket.
00:36:46.930 --> 00:36:50.747 But I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, because
00:36:50.747 --> 00:36:54.504 obviously like the state doesn't cover it. If you're having a
00:36:54.504 --> 00:36:58.079 developer do the work or or separately a BA doing the work
00:36:58.079 --> 00:36:59.230 rather than the PM.
00:37:02.900 --> 00:37:03.700 That makes sense.
00:37:09.650 --> 00:37:10.140 So.
00:37:12.390 --> 00:37:15.933 Do we keep it in Azure then? Like is everyone kind of on
00:37:15.933 --> 00:37:17.300 board with that piece?
00:37:19.050 --> 00:37:19.610 Which part?
00:37:20.070 --> 00:37:24.100 Keeping the the QA feature, yeah.
00:37:22.500 --> 00:37:27.440 I want the QA in Azure. Yeah I that I'm gonna say that's a.
00:37:27.950 --> 00:37:28.790 That's a done deal.
00:37:28.130 --> 00:37:32.804 But down thing for me because the aspect of that is that that
00:37:32.804 --> 00:37:37.705 being closed is the sign off on the feature because again, we're
00:37:37.705 --> 00:37:42.605 moving forward. I'm not, I'm not going, there's no no litigating
00:37:42.605 --> 00:37:47.581 the past but former backlogs are so awful and we're spending such
00:37:47.581 --> 00:37:52.481 a big effort to put the backlogs in a nice shape that to me that
00:37:52.481 --> 00:37:57.080 aspect of it, these QA user stories and features is going to
00:37:57.080 --> 00:37:58.060 be the final.
00:37:58.160 --> 00:38:02.286 Sign off for it and it's gonna be necessary for everyone to
00:38:02.286 --> 00:38:05.793 know that that feature signed off. It's just about
00:38:05.793 --> 00:38:07.650 understanding your project.
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:08.290 Umm.
00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:15.290 That I love because that's.
00:38:16.050 --> 00:38:21.290 That way, anybody at a glance like if Charlie's out for.
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:18.720 Mm-hmm.
00:38:21.020 --> 00:38:23.670 Dude, I said. Yeah.
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:22.990 A week.
00:38:24.010 --> 00:38:24.410 Yeah.
00:38:24.950 --> 00:38:28.503 Like we can look at, you know, the PCs and RIE this week and
00:38:28.503 --> 00:38:32.115 another one we can see right now, right. And I can click drag
00:38:32.115 --> 00:38:33.280 some of these about.
00:38:35.750 --> 00:38:38.848 I can right now, just not these ones. Here are the only one that
00:38:38.848 --> 00:38:40.040 have active work on them.
00:38:42.640 --> 00:38:47.096 Yeah. And I do I enjoy that. Like I've already started to
00:38:47.096 --> 00:38:51.860 organize despite not having the the QA tickets to organize my
00:38:47.540 --> 00:38:47.880 Boom.
00:38:51.860 --> 00:38:56.469 JDM backlog in that way because it's just it's such a quick
00:38:56.469 --> 00:39:01.079 crisp visual that feature is ready like it may not be fully
00:39:00.860 --> 00:39:01.280 Hmm.
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:05.689 queued, it may not be done, but it's out of the developer's
00:39:05.689 --> 00:39:06.150 hands.
00:39:06.640 --> 00:39:06.960 Mm-hmm.
00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:14.120 And I can help with that JBM one and this goes for everyone. I've
00:39:14.120 --> 00:39:17.656 just been focusing on the newer projects, but if we need eyes on
00:39:17.656 --> 00:39:18.200 something.
00:39:19.250 --> 00:39:22.497 Yeah, this is bad, but if we need eyes on some like that,
00:39:22.497 --> 00:39:25.912 just put it in my little inbox and I'll go through and clean
00:39:25.912 --> 00:39:26.080 up.
00:39:26.730 --> 00:39:29.040 What do we do after it's resolved?
00:39:29.770 --> 00:39:30.520 Just close it.
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:33.869 Well resolved would be you mean if it's fully resolved, that's
00:39:33.340 --> 00:39:33.700 Umm.
00:39:33.869 --> 00:39:37.840 kind of what the content of this conversation was and it sounds
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:38.150 like.
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.708 First things first, and I'm just gonna write it in one of these
00:39:42.708 --> 00:39:42.970 ones.
00:39:44.790 --> 00:39:45.260 Or not.
00:39:46.470 --> 00:39:50.380 Now where do I want to write this? It's time for a Miro.
00:39:52.890 --> 00:39:56.300 I mean, I feel like that needs to be a mirror commercial.
00:39:54.570 --> 00:39:55.640 I don't know if you guys.
00:39:56.700 --> 00:39:59.970 I don't know if you guys saw Alex say this today. It was
00:39:59.970 --> 00:40:01.060 really good of him.
00:40:04.290 --> 00:40:07.930 And very proud of him for Tate owning, owning that.
00:40:10.520 --> 00:40:10.850 OK.
00:40:14.120 --> 00:40:17.370 I think I have that message from him a couple of times on Rajan.
00:40:21.170 --> 00:40:24.480 OK, so QA process baby bushka.
00:40:27.910 --> 00:40:29.400 Come now, OK.
00:40:28.660 --> 00:40:31.290 A bit of pushback sounds like a grandma.
00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:35.390 Qi process. OK, so one we're going to. We're gonna.
00:40:53.760 --> 00:41:01.980 What does that mean? That means that the PM will either do a.
00:41:02.710 --> 00:41:04.710 Feature sign off.
00:41:06.250 --> 00:41:09.200 Or assign a developer to do it.
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:13.390 And with that, that means that the.
00:41:14.460 --> 00:41:21.790 Feature works according to the user stories in the feature.
00:41:23.950 --> 00:41:29.580 But does that mean no obvious bugs design issues?
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:30.950 Noted.
00:41:33.390 --> 00:41:36.760 Are we doing stress testing on this or is that just silly?
00:41:39.110 --> 00:41:40.410 I think that's over the top.
00:41:43.660 --> 00:41:46.150 So we're just thinking like you run through it two or three
00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:46.980 times kind of thing.
00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:47.820 Uh-huh.
00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:55.642 Process was, we'll say, three to five times. Make sure there's no
00:41:55.642 --> 00:41:56.370 obvious.
00:41:57.240 --> 00:41:57.750 Issues.
00:41:59.100 --> 00:42:01.740 With that, the estimate.
00:42:03.070 --> 00:42:08.620 For the QA of the feature will be 10% of the total.
00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:16.080 Estimated time for the future. OK. Second part of that.
00:42:17.220 --> 00:42:17.980 If.
00:42:18.890 --> 00:42:20.460 Bugs are found.
00:42:21.700 --> 00:42:30.510 We will create a bug with repro steps in the feature of.
00:42:32.130 --> 00:42:35.050 Peter, where the issue can be found?
00:42:36.160 --> 00:42:39.820 If there are multiple items.
00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:46.536 That are similar. It will only require a single bug, right? I
00:42:46.536 --> 00:42:51.662 don't want a different, a different thing for every single
00:42:49.150 --> 00:42:49.860 Yes.
00:42:51.662 --> 00:42:52.270 little.
00:42:53.930 --> 00:42:57.260 IE1 bug for translations.
00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:55.560 Like.
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:04.330 One bug for a feature that's not working.
00:43:05.680 --> 00:43:08.527 That way, if the developer does look at it and they go yo,
00:43:08.527 --> 00:43:11.374 there's an issue with this, it's, you know, bigger than we
00:43:11.374 --> 00:43:14.317 can break it down. But for our side of things, I don't wanna
00:43:14.317 --> 00:43:17.067 spend too much time on that. We're making the bug. We're
00:43:17.067 --> 00:43:18.370 saying here's what happens.
00:43:19.410 --> 00:43:22.302 Here's what happened. Or here's what didn't work. Here's what I
00:43:22.302 --> 00:43:23.160 was doing to do it.
00:43:26.330 --> 00:43:32.080 What were you trying to do? What did you do? What didn't work?
00:43:40.090 --> 00:43:43.880 Visual items can be compounded.
00:43:45.990 --> 00:43:50.130 Compounded to a single bug.
00:43:51.430 --> 00:43:51.830 OK.
00:43:52.540 --> 00:43:53.180 What else we got?
00:43:52.620 --> 00:43:56.210 Now, OK, ooh, I'm the visual items as that like.
00:43:57.120 --> 00:43:59.530 Per layout or.
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:01.140 So like if.
00:44:00.390 --> 00:44:01.740 I think it should be one.
00:44:02.640 --> 00:44:03.290 OK.
00:44:05.350 --> 00:44:09.745 So if we have an issue with the CART button on the catalog and
00:44:05.820 --> 00:44:07.350 Because those things.
00:44:09.745 --> 00:44:13.931 it's a slightly different issue with the CART button on the
00:44:13.931 --> 00:44:17.280 product details page, it can still be 1 ticket.
00:44:17.420 --> 00:44:18.180 One thing.
00:44:18.580 --> 00:44:18.900 OK.
00:44:19.820 --> 00:44:23.674 Because with those and I think this is would be my preference
00:44:23.674 --> 00:44:24.980 for those in general.
00:44:26.250 --> 00:44:29.400 Umm, if you're finding a lot of those.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:33.770 You know, make a note, make a list of all of them, and then.
00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:39.035 Either send that list over to a front end developer who can go
00:44:39.035 --> 00:44:43.330 clean them all up, or frigging column into a call and do it.
00:44:43.910 --> 00:44:44.490 Yeah.
00:44:44.150 --> 00:44:44.700 With them.
00:44:46.780 --> 00:44:49.090 Good old fashioned mess around. I love that.
00:44:48.610 --> 00:44:49.170 Yeah.
00:44:56.910 --> 00:44:57.690 Sir Harper.
00:45:01.990 --> 00:45:03.150 You just waving at us.
00:45:02.040 --> 00:45:03.030 Yeah. So.
00:45:04.030 --> 00:45:07.560 No, the the other thing that came to mind.
00:45:08.080 --> 00:45:08.810 UM.
00:45:09.550 --> 00:45:10.470 And we can.
00:45:11.250 --> 00:45:15.384 Put a pin in this. Come back to it. Whatever. But how do we
00:45:15.384 --> 00:45:16.280 wanna handle?
00:45:17.200 --> 00:45:20.431 Like I can't QA and endpoint. Ohh never mind. We're doing this
00:45:20.370 --> 00:45:20.590 No.
00:45:20.431 --> 00:45:23.611 at the feature level not the task. Shut up never mind. I said
00:45:22.620 --> 00:45:23.070 Yep.
00:45:23.611 --> 00:45:25.970 nothing. Nothing at all. This is an impostor.
00:45:25.020 --> 00:45:25.540 Not again.
00:45:25.150 --> 00:45:25.950 Nothing to see her.
00:45:26.230 --> 00:45:29.168 Bring it up. Bring it up. Bring it up. Yeah, at the feature
00:45:29.168 --> 00:45:32.107 level. So I don't know. One needs to touch QA until all the
00:45:32.107 --> 00:45:33.870 user stories are done on a feature.
00:45:34.340 --> 00:45:37.737 Yeah. So I don't have to mess with it on like the endpoint or
00:45:37.737 --> 00:45:40.860 a schema change or anything. It's just the finished prod
00:45:37.770 --> 00:45:38.270 Now.
00:45:39.430 --> 00:45:39.880 Umm.
00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:44.421 product when front end, back end are all wrapped together. Yeah,
00:45:44.421 --> 00:45:44.640 duh.
00:45:44.540 --> 00:45:47.648 Yeah, yeah. We're wasting our time. If we're doing QA to user
00:45:47.648 --> 00:45:48.250 story level.
00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:50.900 Yep, agreed. Agreed. Sorry.
00:45:50.170 --> 00:45:51.060 Planned to percent.
00:45:51.790 --> 00:45:54.020 No, no, it's it's a valid thing to bring up.
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:57.124 He ever noticed something's dumb as it comes out your mouth, but
00:45:57.124 --> 00:45:58.710 just too late to stop it.
00:45:57.790 --> 00:45:58.360 I've.
00:45:59.090 --> 00:46:01.820 Every day of my life, Charlie. Yeah.
00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:00.850 Every day.
00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:03.210 It's like a yeah, it's a runaway train.
00:46:00.650 --> 00:46:02.990 Yeah, I think all of us.
00:46:03.490 --> 00:46:09.643 So three, let's just make that a big point. We will not QA a
00:46:09.643 --> 00:46:15.392 feature until all of the user children, user stories are
00:46:15.392 --> 00:46:16.300 complete.
00:46:18.330 --> 00:46:18.880 Beautiful.
00:46:19.250 --> 00:46:21.770 It's a gall darn waste of time.
00:46:23.830 --> 00:46:24.990 Ohh time even.
00:46:25.300 --> 00:46:26.200 No time.
00:46:26.180 --> 00:46:27.270 No time.
00:46:28.160 --> 00:46:32.068 And yeah, and that's that's the overarching goal with this is to
00:46:32.068 --> 00:46:33.210 get more efficient.
00:46:33.980 --> 00:46:35.230 Across the board.
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:37.190 So.
00:46:38.420 --> 00:46:39.550 Love that.
00:46:48.080 --> 00:46:49.510 I'm wondering about.
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:50.910 OK.
00:46:53.950 --> 00:46:54.580 What about?
00:46:55.820 --> 00:46:59.489 The code complete process because typically what I'll do
00:46:59.489 --> 00:47:03.416 with code complete is just run through quick. Make sure that
00:47:03.416 --> 00:47:06.570 you know hey button is there thing is available.
00:47:05.230 --> 00:47:08.150 No, I'm gonna shift this around. Code complete.
00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:09.170 Yeah. Thank you.
00:47:09.290 --> 00:47:10.740 Developers responsibility.
00:47:11.630 --> 00:47:12.530 Thank you all.
00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:14.870 No.
00:47:16.640 --> 00:47:17.670 Thank you.
00:47:20.070 --> 00:47:22.653 And we can change that now. And Trenton, if you wanna change it
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:20.720 I don't.
00:47:22.653 --> 00:47:23.500 in the new clean. Oh.
00:47:24.270 --> 00:47:28.023 This, you know, shoot right now the new thing going forward
00:47:27.200 --> 00:47:27.830 Today.
00:47:28.023 --> 00:47:31.588 should be code complete. All we're doing is paying those
00:47:31.588 --> 00:47:35.278 developers. Hey, if you got 2 seconds no, cuz no, no. Code
00:47:35.278 --> 00:47:38.530 Complete is a developer responsibility all the way.
00:47:40.100 --> 00:47:42.708 So when you say it's a developer's responsibility is
00:47:42.708 --> 00:47:45.809 that they're responsibility to also run those queries. Is that
00:47:45.790 --> 00:47:48.737 We can run the queries to make sure because hopefully those
00:47:45.809 --> 00:47:46.350 what we're?
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:48.240 OK.
00:47:48.737 --> 00:47:51.636 queries are getting fewer and farther between, right? Or I
00:47:51.636 --> 00:47:52.520 mean there's less.
00:47:53.270 --> 00:47:55.910 Things that were turned on them, right or still bring nearly.
00:47:58.520 --> 00:48:01.590 There's a lot. OK, got it. I hear you.
00:47:59.150 --> 00:48:04.069 I mean it it it's it's about the same every time some stuff goes
00:48:02.690 --> 00:48:04.460 OK so.
00:48:04.069 --> 00:48:06.340 out, some more stuff comes in.
00:48:07.890 --> 00:48:12.040 OK. So then to me what that says is that.
00:48:13.150 --> 00:48:15.654 You know, if you always pick up after kid, they're gonna keep
00:48:15.654 --> 00:48:16.220 making a mess.
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:22.120 I I would also call out.
00:48:23.180 --> 00:48:27.372 Like I know for instance in the last few months my code
00:48:27.372 --> 00:48:31.863 completes have roughly cut in half, but there's still a lot
00:48:30.690 --> 00:48:31.050 Umm.
00:48:31.863 --> 00:48:35.980 out there and I know on legacy projects we still have.
00:48:39.100 --> 00:48:42.112 And I'm gonna shut up again. It's been a great week,
00:48:41.570 --> 00:48:42.300 No, it's not.
00:48:42.112 --> 00:48:42.680 everybody.
00:48:42.970 --> 00:48:43.900 Let's hear it out. What's up?
00:48:45.260 --> 00:48:49.030 Well, what I'm what I'm thinking is is like.
00:48:50.140 --> 00:48:54.949 There used to be a push to say, well if this isn't ready to QA
00:48:54.949 --> 00:48:59.529 then don't have the status be deployed to QA. But then like
00:48:59.529 --> 00:49:04.109 after you know a given amount of time in code complete, the
00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:02.780 Umm.
00:49:04.109 --> 00:49:08.842 system would like. I can't tell you how many times I had that
00:49:06.080 --> 00:49:06.580 Yeah.
00:49:08.842 --> 00:49:11.590 conversation with Christian and so.
00:49:12.040 --> 00:49:15.790 Umm, you know, deployed to QA if.
00:49:16.510 --> 00:49:19.800 If they can confirm, yeah, I put it on QA. It's out there. Sweet.
00:49:20.500 --> 00:49:21.440 Then we know.
00:49:22.780 --> 00:49:27.260 And yeah, if if the if it's the developer's responsibility to
00:49:27.260 --> 00:49:31.162 ensure that like it's been PRT and it's ready for the
00:49:31.162 --> 00:49:33.330 organization to interact with.
00:49:34.200 --> 00:49:34.550 Umm.
00:49:34.450 --> 00:49:39.330 We can take it from there and there could be items that.
00:49:40.540 --> 00:49:44.115 Languish in code complete because I don't know. It's been
00:49:44.115 --> 00:49:47.997 long enough that that I think that should have all washed out,
00:49:47.997 --> 00:49:51.880 but there could be some older stuff that would keep it static.
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:49.090 Yeah.
00:49:50.090 --> 00:49:51.240 I've I've.
00:49:52.790 --> 00:49:57.758 So that's set for what, 21 days? And I think that moving forward
00:49:57.758 --> 00:50:02.267 especially with kind of the new processes and the way that
00:50:01.420 --> 00:50:01.820 Yeah.
00:50:02.267 --> 00:50:06.929 things are running, I don't think that that is that's what 3
00:50:06.929 --> 00:50:07.540 sprints.
00:50:08.050 --> 00:50:11.180 Yeah, I don't think that's that's unfair to say that after
00:50:11.180 --> 00:50:14.523 21 days it's in there because honestly, like I said, you know,
00:50:14.523 --> 00:50:17.813 not to harp on and we need to bring this over to connect too,
00:50:17.813 --> 00:50:18.290 but like.
00:50:19.020 --> 00:50:21.350 If we're in PCs and somebody's in code complete.
00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:25.670 You know, like these three here.
00:50:27.500 --> 00:50:31.646 We have this as resolved. This is in the Sprint, but we gotta
00:50:31.646 --> 00:50:33.050 be hounding the devs.
00:50:32.220 --> 00:50:35.286 Yeah, I did it wrong because I thought that you were resolving
00:50:35.286 --> 00:50:38.352 when the when the developer was complete with the work, not on
00:50:38.352 --> 00:50:41.515 deployed to QA. So I beat you to the punch and correctly on some
00:50:41.515 --> 00:50:44.386 of those I was gonna keep it under my hat and fix it after
00:50:41.810 --> 00:50:42.140 OK.
00:50:44.386 --> 00:50:44.970 the meeting.
00:50:45.120 --> 00:50:47.470 That's OK. That's fine. That's totally fine.
00:50:47.520 --> 00:50:47.900 Doubted.
00:50:48.470 --> 00:50:52.375 No, no, it's totally cool. But then. But no, but try what you
00:50:52.375 --> 00:50:56.153 can do with that is if we're managing it at this level, the
00:50:56.153 --> 00:50:59.680 code complete audit itself kind of becomes null, right?
00:50:59.220 --> 00:51:00.470 Great. Great. Yeah.
00:51:01.100 --> 00:51:03.748 Because we're saying, hey, can I QA this, this, this all up on
00:51:03.748 --> 00:51:04.210 the branch?
00:51:04.680 --> 00:51:06.950 Yeah, we've essentially eliminated that step.
00:51:05.450 --> 00:51:06.120 Rather.
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:07.740 Yeah.
00:51:10.500 --> 00:51:13.869 Because we're we're going to be hunting for this rather than
00:51:13.869 --> 00:51:15.470 setting traps waiting for it.
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:16.210 Yeah.
00:51:16.090 --> 00:51:20.467 I mean, I don't know if there is an appropriate gift for the
00:51:20.467 --> 00:51:22.620 emotion that I have right now.
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:26.380 Is that a crab with a knife?
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:27.740 No.
00:51:28.250 --> 00:51:28.570 Ohh.
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:31.750 I like the crab with a knife. That's my favorite.
00:51:34.390 --> 00:51:35.460 You know, I'm talking about.
00:51:36.450 --> 00:51:37.100 No.
00:51:37.170 --> 00:51:37.900 I'm about to.
00:51:38.820 --> 00:51:39.210 Man.
00:51:41.570 --> 00:51:42.000 This.
00:51:41.720 --> 00:51:42.290 I got you.
00:51:43.310 --> 00:51:43.800 Thanks Clint.
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:43.970 Oh yeah.
00:51:44.210 --> 00:51:44.810 The good ones.
00:51:48.770 --> 00:51:54.564 Ohh no, no, that's not the right one. That's normal mode of
00:51:52.630 --> 00:51:53.070 Is.
00:51:54.380 --> 00:51:56.480 No, he's just cool. He's just living.
00:51:54.564 --> 00:51:55.530 operating.
00:51:57.190 --> 00:51:58.980 Yeah, that's that's normal.
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:00.460 Just got a knife. That's my dog.
00:52:01.140 --> 00:52:03.880 This is more of a you know this.
00:52:05.170 --> 00:52:08.740 This level of just ridiculousness might explain it.
00:52:13.060 --> 00:52:16.800 I'm I'm so happy with this. I feel like this I have. I have
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:18.920 some documentation updates to do.
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:20.000 Umm.
00:52:21.130 --> 00:52:27.870 But I feel like that streamlines are our thought process on.
00:52:23.470 --> 00:52:23.810 Yeah.
00:52:30.970 --> 00:52:35.383 How we sort of view the project overall as well as the percent
00:52:35.383 --> 00:52:40.007 completion. So that's gonna give us a much better bird's eye view
00:52:40.007 --> 00:52:44.280 rather than trying to get like one of the biggest challenges
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:48.483 with keeping your Gantt charts up to date and kind of going
00:52:48.483 --> 00:52:52.686 through this documentation with your clients is the sort of
00:52:52.686 --> 00:52:57.029 disjointed kind of QA process. And I think that this is gonna
00:52:57.029 --> 00:52:58.570 clean that up so much.
00:52:58.890 --> 00:52:59.260 Yeah.
00:53:00.050 --> 00:53:03.018 Because we're just, you know, if we're developing to the feature
00:53:03.018 --> 00:53:05.939 level, we should be queuing at the feature level and talking to
00:53:05.939 --> 00:53:08.953 the clients at the feature level 2 because at the end of the day,
00:53:08.953 --> 00:53:11.600 they don't care what tasks we have to do other than their
00:53:11.600 --> 00:53:11.920 budget.
00:53:12.950 --> 00:53:15.630 Like it's it's it's all Greek so.
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:16.510 Umm yeah.
00:53:18.620 --> 00:53:19.490 Oh, I'm so thrilled.
00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:25.697 I couldn't find a gift to teehee, so I had to do it out
00:53:25.697 --> 00:53:25.950 loud.
00:53:28.620 --> 00:53:30.770 Awesome. UM.
00:53:32.260 --> 00:53:37.910 So I I I do want to kind of make sure that we dissect a little
00:53:37.910 --> 00:53:40.690 bit more like the the plan for.
00:53:41.990 --> 00:53:46.466 The architecture process and the time frame that that is going to
00:53:46.466 --> 00:53:48.840 take. So I'm kind of curious like.
00:53:51.180 --> 00:53:53.200 We're about to wrap discovery.
00:53:55.200 --> 00:53:58.166 They're fairly content with everything that we've talked
00:53:58.166 --> 00:54:01.340 about and we now have to kind of finalize that architecture.
00:54:02.210 --> 00:54:06.090 We know as the PM that it's going to take.
00:54:08.780 --> 00:54:13.363 Nine well, 99 days. Now it's gonna take 2 sprints to kind of
00:54:13.363 --> 00:54:14.790 get this completed.
00:54:15.830 --> 00:54:20.290 What sort of verbiage would you use, Amy?
00:54:21.170 --> 00:54:22.370 To explain that to the client.
00:54:26.230 --> 00:54:28.440 Umm good question.
00:54:30.870 --> 00:54:34.274 Can you repeat the question? I was staring at the Furby
00:54:32.860 --> 00:54:33.420 Yep.
00:54:34.274 --> 00:54:34.760 picture.
00:54:36.060 --> 00:54:36.450 Yes.
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:42.288 So the scenario is we have completed discovery, the client
00:54:42.288 --> 00:54:46.224 has signed off, they haven't signed off on re estimates yet,
00:54:46.224 --> 00:54:50.354 but they've signed off on this is the FSD, this is the scope of
00:54:50.354 --> 00:54:54.420 work and we're about to launch into the full architecture, get
00:54:54.420 --> 00:54:58.550 in the Mirror Board built out, making sure that we have all the
00:54:58.550 --> 00:55:02.745 task ads and everything in there and we know that it is going to
00:55:02.745 --> 00:55:04.810 take 2 sprints to complete this.
00:55:06.470 --> 00:55:11.017 Maybe the BA has vacation time, or somebody decided to let Eric
00:55:11.017 --> 00:55:15.422 take a day off, or you know, whoever this process gets passed
00:55:15.422 --> 00:55:20.040 off to for whatever reason, it's gonna take more than one Sprint
00:55:20.040 --> 00:55:21.390 to accomplish this.
00:55:22.990 --> 00:55:26.360 How would you communicate that to your client?
00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:31.753 Ah, OK. So earlier when it was mentioned that it's kind of
00:55:31.753 --> 00:55:35.846 like, yes, this takes time, but this is just basically set the
00:55:35.846 --> 00:55:37.600 project up for success, so.
00:55:38.500 --> 00:55:41.424 What I'm thinking of right now is like enter cause what their
00:55:41.424 --> 00:55:44.160 face? Two stuff. They're discovery has gone on since like
00:55:44.160 --> 00:55:46.330 January and then we're still kind of waiting.
00:55:47.070 --> 00:55:49.883 But we kind of started architecture, but we're still
00:55:49.883 --> 00:55:51.050 waiting on stuff, but.
00:55:51.690 --> 00:55:53.360 I don't know if I've answered the question properly.
00:55:54.240 --> 00:55:55.170 I think you're getting there.
00:55:54.290 --> 00:55:57.366 But basically, yeah, you, I guess the basic rundown is
00:55:57.366 --> 00:56:00.946 explaining that the time spent here in architecture is crucial,
00:56:00.946 --> 00:56:04.526 and with the you know, valuable here because we are setting the
00:56:04.526 --> 00:56:07.490 project up for success and like the time spent here.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:11.751 I don't know, like I can't get the words. I can't get the
00:56:10.700 --> 00:56:11.940 It's I.
00:56:11.751 --> 00:56:12.040 words.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:17.061 I'll give you a hint is that I'm basically wanting to kind of
00:56:17.061 --> 00:56:21.460 flip your brain almost into how to sell something. So there's a
00:56:21.460 --> 00:56:25.928 couple of key things. Yeah. Sell me this pen is exactly what I'm
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:22.510 Sell me this pet.
00:56:25.928 --> 00:56:27.440 asking you to do here.
00:56:35.200 --> 00:56:35.640 OK.
00:56:35.930 --> 00:56:38.360 You can phone a friend or pass the buck.
00:56:39.830 --> 00:56:40.660 No way.
00:56:42.350 --> 00:56:45.460 No, OK, Daniel said. No, no lifelines here.
00:56:46.820 --> 00:56:47.290 OK, OK.
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:51.590 Umm.
00:56:55.640 --> 00:56:58.990 I will allow others to side chat you hints though.
00:56:59.980 --> 00:57:00.740 OK.
00:57:06.280 --> 00:57:08.030 What are the benefits of architecture?
00:57:10.890 --> 00:57:13.790 On to basically have what we're building out.
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:18.540 Up for architected out properly that way, the project goes as
00:57:18.540 --> 00:57:21.862 smoothly as possible and that we know everything that we're gonna
00:57:21.862 --> 00:57:24.580 build to based on the clients needs and requirements.
00:57:24.980 --> 00:57:28.994 Umm. close. That's what we're doing. But what are the benefits
00:57:28.994 --> 00:57:30.460 to the client for that?
00:57:32.470 --> 00:57:35.140 Making said to find the risk areas.
00:57:42.970 --> 00:57:43.560 One of them.
00:57:48.730 --> 00:57:49.120 There's.
00:57:48.860 --> 00:57:52.280 Uh, maybe potential areas that could take longer based on.
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:56.685 Kind of the what the scope is and calling those things out. So
00:57:56.685 --> 00:57:59.400 it's like taking that time do identify what that is and then
00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:00.780 being able to communicate that.
00:58:02.390 --> 00:58:05.420 Get ahead of those risk areas sooner. Love it.
00:58:05.080 --> 00:58:05.690 Yes.
00:58:07.290 --> 00:58:11.180 What does that do in terms of the triple constraint?
00:58:12.870 --> 00:58:16.028 Helps you keep control over it. At least it if you know what the
00:58:16.028 --> 00:58:18.797 clients, what their most important one is. And make sure
00:58:18.797 --> 00:58:21.420 you can get ahead of things and communicate and time.
00:58:25.390 --> 00:58:30.100 Does this have a direct impact on the?
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:34.430 Overall budget, and if so, how?
00:58:38.450 --> 00:58:41.204 I would say yes. If we're taking time to get through an
00:58:41.204 --> 00:58:44.007 architecture process and if we're telling him it's gonna
00:58:44.007 --> 00:58:46.564 take another two weeks to get through this and then
00:58:46.564 --> 00:58:49.269 communicate that this is impacting budget, how wet and
00:58:49.269 --> 00:58:50.400 somewhat of a timeline.
00:58:52.120 --> 00:58:52.730 But.
00:58:55.070 --> 00:58:59.576 So you're very close. So what I'm kind of looking for here is
00:58:59.576 --> 00:59:03.500 one of the things that tends to come up if we do not.
00:59:05.130 --> 00:59:09.037 Fully architected out and have a plan for the developers of what
00:59:09.037 --> 00:59:11.080 it is that we're trying to build.
00:59:12.370 --> 00:59:16.577 It's kind of like throwing spaghetti at a wall. You know,
00:59:15.450 --> 00:59:15.860 Umm.
00:59:16.577 --> 00:59:20.784 they're gonna. They have a general idea of what they need
00:59:20.784 --> 00:59:25.280 to do. And so they're gonna try certain areas. But the senior
00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:29.850 architect team likely has the path of least resistance in mind
00:59:29.850 --> 00:59:34.419 as they're going through this. And so they're gonna be able to
00:59:34.419 --> 00:59:38.626 architect that out, which is going to eventually down the
00:59:38.626 --> 00:59:42.180 road, save the client rework on items that were.
00:59:42.290 --> 00:59:46.312 Originally completed that may not be exactly what they were
00:59:46.312 --> 00:59:50.534 looking for, or it may not, or it may result in rework because
00:59:50.534 --> 00:59:54.690 it wasn't done correctly with the big picture of the project.
00:59:54.690 --> 00:59:57.170 Or you know any number of variables.
00:59:55.490 --> 00:59:57.040 That's a good one, the rework.
00:59:57.930 --> 00:59:58.400 Umm.
00:59:59.130 --> 01:00:00.190 To be work.
00:59:59.190 --> 01:00:03.956 It's gonna save their budget in terms of rework on areas that
01:00:03.956 --> 01:00:08.722 weren't fully uncovered during this process. We can launch in
01:00:08.722 --> 01:00:13.334 and we're agile and we're happy to do that. But there is an
01:00:13.334 --> 01:00:17.100 inherent risk unless we go through this process.
01:00:19.510 --> 01:00:23.042 So it's an investment. You're basically investing in that
01:00:23.042 --> 01:00:26.330 effort there to prevent further and prevent identify?
01:00:24.590 --> 01:00:28.240 1000% yes, 100%.
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:28.790 OK.
01:00:30.160 --> 01:00:32.140 Good job, awesome sauce.
01:00:32.560 --> 01:00:33.330 I.
01:00:32.650 --> 01:00:34.030 Thanks for the help you guys.
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:37.600 I was reading the chat the crab things cracking me up.
01:00:41.050 --> 01:00:42.690 Charlie, what verbiage would you use?
01:00:45.940 --> 01:00:48.410 Well, from my perspective.
01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:55.247 The the the notion that architecture is investment
01:00:55.247 --> 01:01:00.392 rather than overhead is an indication that we are not just
01:01:00.392 --> 01:01:05.537 spending money. That's fixed cost, that weighs the project
01:01:05.537 --> 01:01:10.421 down. We are investing money because we expect a return
01:01:10.421 --> 01:01:16.089 greater than that investment on efficiency and schedule later in
01:01:16.089 --> 01:01:19.490 the project. So that one architecture.
01:01:19.570 --> 01:01:23.820 By one person start to finish coherent and detailed reduces
01:01:23.820 --> 01:01:27.644 risk, reduces schedule and reduces budget in terms of
01:01:27.644 --> 01:01:31.965 rework when compared to every developer working architecture
01:01:31.965 --> 01:01:36.285 on their own based on their best understanding on every user
01:01:36.285 --> 01:01:37.560 story they handle.
01:01:38.970 --> 01:01:39.510 It awful.
01:01:42.330 --> 01:01:46.522 Are you sure wish that I'd had that on the tip of my tongue in
01:01:42.390 --> 01:01:42.940 Mickey.
01:01:46.522 --> 01:01:50.380 in the client call with this with this issue at hand. But
01:01:50.380 --> 01:01:53.840 that's that's how I'm thinking about it these days.
01:01:55.150 --> 01:01:55.600 Love it.
01:01:57.180 --> 01:02:00.530 Usually being put on the spot in a client call is the best way to
01:02:00.530 --> 01:02:03.728 lock that verbiage down. When you think about it in hindsight,
01:02:03.728 --> 01:02:06.570 after you've bungled it once, you'll never do it again.
01:02:07.390 --> 01:02:07.870 Oh yeah.
01:02:07.680 --> 01:02:11.112 At least that's been my experience and have I got some
01:02:11.112 --> 01:02:12.110 stories for you.
01:02:14.540 --> 01:02:19.830 Mickey, I'm going to kind of change your question up just a
01:02:19.830 --> 01:02:20.800 little bit.
01:02:21.690 --> 01:02:22.100 Kimmy.
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:23.660 So.
01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:28.760 If your client says, yeah, that's all well and good.
01:02:30.140 --> 01:02:33.232 We don't really care. We just need to get started on this
01:02:33.232 --> 01:02:36.537 because timeline is the most important and we wanted this two
01:02:36.537 --> 01:02:37.070 weeks ago.
01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:43.260 My response to them would be that if timeline is their number
01:02:43.260 --> 01:02:46.613 one issue, then they need to do the architecture first because
01:02:46.613 --> 01:02:49.700 if we don't do it first, we're just going to end up doing
01:02:49.700 --> 01:02:51.190 rework, slowing things down.
01:02:52.370 --> 01:02:55.532 We need to have it nailed down before we start building or it's
01:02:55.532 --> 01:02:56.570 going to take longer.
01:02:59.090 --> 01:03:00.430 It's kind of like a baby, right?
01:02:59.290 --> 01:02:59.850 Love it.
01:03:01.650 --> 01:03:02.130 Mm-hmm.
01:03:03.880 --> 01:03:04.790 Expand.
01:03:07.260 --> 01:03:07.830 Umm.
01:03:09.200 --> 01:03:11.520 You know, there's that old saying right about the.
01:03:12.520 --> 01:03:15.030 You can't get nine women to deliver a baby in one month.
01:03:17.630 --> 01:03:18.740 Never lose, that says.
01:03:20.020 --> 01:03:22.621 Because it's essentially what we're doing right? We're letting
01:03:22.621 --> 01:03:24.810 that baby gestate. And Eric for a little bit longer.
01:03:26.510 --> 01:03:28.800 And then we're handing it out to all the developers.
01:03:26.990 --> 01:03:27.920 I guess.
01:03:27.310 --> 01:03:28.660 Wow.
01:03:29.540 --> 01:03:31.690 We just took a turn for the weird. I love it.
01:03:34.150 --> 01:03:35.380 Erick loves that visual.
01:03:35.500 --> 01:03:39.010 I was muted, but I I actually cackled laughing on that one.
01:03:39.410 --> 01:03:42.579 But you know it's true, right? Like that needs to live in you
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:41.830 Yeah, yeah.
01:03:42.579 --> 01:03:45.800 for a little bit and then we can send it out into the dev team
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:47.640 because then once it's done, right.
01:03:48.650 --> 01:03:52.436 That little sucker comes out, and it knows it knows where it's
01:03:52.436 --> 01:03:55.200 going. I mean, dude, hearing Alex today like.
01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:59.671 And I know we I like I said, Eric's backs probably. So I
01:03:59.671 --> 01:04:03.389 think it's this morning. I know, I know, I know. But I'm saying
01:04:00.530 --> 01:04:01.850 Stop. I'm just kidding.
01:04:03.389 --> 01:04:07.049 hearing it from someone who's actually doing the work on that.
01:04:07.049 --> 01:04:07.920 Right. Come on.
01:04:07.660 --> 01:04:11.565 He cannot stop. He cannot stop talking about how much it makes
01:04:10.170 --> 01:04:10.680 Can't stop.
01:04:11.565 --> 01:04:15.470 a difference with the tasks just because of like he said, it's
01:04:15.470 --> 01:04:19.561 gives him the confidence to know that like he knows what he needs
01:04:19.561 --> 01:04:23.281 to do to get his work done and he's like, it feels like I'm
01:04:23.281 --> 01:04:26.070 just working the best job ever. I'm like ah.
01:04:26.700 --> 01:04:27.540 So rad.
01:04:28.160 --> 01:04:31.420 I I also just wanna call out that.
01:04:32.790 --> 01:04:39.261 While we all feel very technical and methodical, because we work
01:04:39.261 --> 01:04:45.533 with things that you know with code that works in its specific
01:04:45.533 --> 01:04:51.506 and explicit way, the fact is that it is a creative process
01:04:51.506 --> 01:04:57.380 that you cannot just throw in the the components of what a
01:04:57.380 --> 01:05:01.760 what a client needs. Throw in the features.
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:06.839 And the architecture can only be one way and it must be so just
01:05:06.839 --> 01:05:11.374 have it present immediately. Perfectly, because that's not
01:05:11.374 --> 01:05:16.062 how a creative process works. How long does it take to get a
01:05:16.062 --> 01:05:21.135 good idea? Like there's it's not predictable in mathematical, and
01:05:21.135 --> 01:05:25.823 so it has to have its time. I think that I think the the the
01:05:25.823 --> 01:05:30.665 word gestate is ideal because like is it soup yet I don't know
01:05:30.665 --> 01:05:32.510 like like you you gotta.
01:05:32.580 --> 01:05:37.237 Is it and and give it that time and understand all of the steps
01:05:37.070 --> 01:05:37.470 Mm-hmm.
01:05:37.237 --> 01:05:41.676 before the whole thing wraps up. It's like none of it's done
01:05:41.676 --> 01:05:43.350 until all of it's done.
01:05:43.940 --> 01:05:46.781 Yeah, what else do you think about, like the old way? Sorry,
01:05:44.940 --> 01:05:47.390 Well, to me, that's the go ahead.
01:05:46.781 --> 01:05:49.669 but just real quick, like the old way. If I give 3 developers
01:05:49.669 --> 01:05:52.604 the same user story, they're all gonna do it different way and
01:05:52.604 --> 01:05:55.492 they're not thinking about this user story over here and this
01:05:55.492 --> 01:05:56.470 other one over there.
01:05:56.710 --> 01:05:59.521 You know, and so it's all that rework that we've done
01:05:56.930 --> 01:05:57.350 Great.
01:05:59.521 --> 01:06:02.645 throughout the years because we've uncovered something. But
01:06:00.650 --> 01:06:01.070 Uh-huh.
01:06:02.645 --> 01:06:05.768 when Eric has that 100 foot view, he's looking at the whole
01:06:05.768 --> 01:06:08.788 thing and he'll revise things, you know, I'm sorry you're
01:06:08.788 --> 01:06:09.100 going.
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:12.458 No, that's that's perfect. That's exactly what I was gonna
01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:12.720 So.
01:06:12.458 --> 01:06:15.330 say because during that process, you know, during the
01:06:15.330 --> 01:06:18.734 architecture process, if you're looking at the whole thing, you
01:06:18.734 --> 01:06:21.978 know there are handful of times that we've changed something
01:06:21.978 --> 01:06:25.488 because a question comes out and now maybe maybe if they came out
01:06:25.488 --> 01:06:28.786 in the old way when we've done development work, we've put in
01:06:28.786 --> 01:06:32.243 40 hours on something and now we have to pivot. Well, if we can.
01:06:32.243 --> 01:06:35.168 And I'm not saying that this isn't gonna happen moving
01:06:35.168 --> 01:06:38.199 forward. Sometimes it's impossible for that to happen or
01:06:38.199 --> 01:06:39.210 not to happen, but.
01:06:38.410 --> 01:06:39.770 Nope, Nope. You committed.
01:06:40.300 --> 01:06:41.190 OK, sounds good.
01:06:41.290 --> 01:06:41.990 Uh.
01:06:44.430 --> 01:06:48.005 Then then we have that chance and and the first thing I was
01:06:48.005 --> 01:06:51.878 gonna say was that with with the architecture in this manner, we
01:06:51.878 --> 01:06:55.513 are solving the problem of how to handle the specific client
01:06:55.513 --> 01:06:58.968 like request and requirement, whereas in the past we were
01:06:58.968 --> 01:07:02.365 like, yeah, I think we can handle it doing this. But not
01:07:02.365 --> 01:07:06.178 only did the developers have to figure out how to solve the way
01:07:06.178 --> 01:07:10.110 we want to solve it in the code, they also had to figure out what
01:07:10.110 --> 01:07:13.924 were we were even asking for. So we were asking them to solve 2
01:07:13.924 --> 01:07:14.460 problems.
01:07:14.640 --> 01:07:18.022 Instead of justice, how can I accomplish this in the code and
01:07:18.022 --> 01:07:21.568 we are solving some of that for them as well. But you know it it
01:07:21.568 --> 01:07:24.787 makes it a lot easier for a junior level developer to come
01:07:24.787 --> 01:07:28.060 in and and do the work if we if we solve the business logic
01:07:28.060 --> 01:07:31.442 problem they got hired because they could do code not because
01:07:31.442 --> 01:07:33.570 they understood client business logic.
01:07:34.180 --> 01:07:43.022 Right, so from the scrum roll and from like even the common
01:07:43.022 --> 01:07:44.790 model stuff.
01:07:46.250 --> 01:07:50.391 Either Clint or Daniel. Do you wanna speak to like the amount
01:07:50.391 --> 01:07:54.666 of developer questions and the communication changes that we've
01:07:54.666 --> 01:07:55.200 noticed?
01:07:55.930 --> 01:07:59.854 With this and kind of how they're starting to see more
01:07:59.854 --> 01:08:02.780 from the the big picture side of things.
01:08:04.630 --> 01:08:07.142 Have you noticed any massive changes with the team in
01:08:07.142 --> 01:08:09.933 general, or are we still just kind of like ohh yeah, it's a
01:08:09.933 --> 01:08:11.840 good confidence level and call it a day.
01:08:14.610 --> 01:08:17.900 I think common model does bring the benefit of.
01:08:19.170 --> 01:08:23.788 Reducing the initial complexity because you just have something
01:08:23.788 --> 01:08:28.406 to work off of. I think this is something that's set benefits a
01:08:28.406 --> 01:08:30.210 lot from Seth has a base.
01:08:29.180 --> 01:08:29.560 Mm-hmm.
01:08:30.850 --> 01:08:31.500 Version.
01:08:32.290 --> 01:08:35.306 Whereas connect for longest time. Did you know you had your
01:08:35.306 --> 01:08:38.070 connector, but you didn't have? What is a product sync
01:08:38.070 --> 01:08:41.337 out-of-the-box? And so now that we have that, the developers can
01:08:41.337 --> 01:08:43.900 just stand it up. That doesn't mean that it isn't.
01:08:44.550 --> 01:08:48.445 That it's just perfect as is, but it does allow us to identify
01:08:48.445 --> 01:08:52.341 what the discrepancies are and so that communication becomes a
01:08:52.341 --> 01:08:53.330 little bit more.
01:08:55.890 --> 01:08:59.305 Easier to work within because it's easier to identify what's
01:08:59.305 --> 01:09:01.320 not working than it is to identify.
01:09:02.380 --> 01:09:05.503 What are all the things that do need to work? And if we just
01:09:05.503 --> 01:09:08.574 have a base template we can work off of, which is basically
01:09:08.574 --> 01:09:11.492 common model it it helps a lot with that. So I think the
01:09:11.492 --> 01:09:14.563 communication is definitely improved and certainly the time
01:09:14.563 --> 01:09:15.280 to completion.
01:09:17.130 --> 01:09:17.590 Nice.
01:09:18.280 --> 01:09:24.019 So with those project specific stand ups and Sprint plannings
01:09:24.019 --> 01:09:25.130 in the like.
01:09:27.060 --> 01:09:31.758 Is there an Mickey? I think we do this on model and I know we
01:09:31.758 --> 01:09:36.380 do this on anaerobe is there is there more cohesion with the
01:09:36.380 --> 01:09:40.850 development team or are we still seeing any sort of silos?
01:09:48.070 --> 01:09:50.410 When you, what do you mean when you say silos?
01:09:50.960 --> 01:09:51.120 Like.
01:09:53.340 --> 01:09:56.797 They they're all kind of jump again because they understand
01:09:56.797 --> 01:10:00.427 the big picture of the project or is it specific to this is my
01:10:00.427 --> 01:10:04.000 ticket. This is my focus. That's what I know on this project.
01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:11.491 I definitely feel like that's an issue where it's it's singularly
01:10:11.491 --> 01:10:13.210 focused on the tickets.
01:10:15.160 --> 01:10:19.204 I'm seeing some improvements. Ridell is still struggling in
01:10:19.204 --> 01:10:23.112 that area, but like PBC, everybody is working together so
01:10:23.112 --> 01:10:27.089 well and communicating and having dialogue that is just so
01:10:27.089 --> 01:10:27.830 productive.
01:10:28.780 --> 01:10:32.975 Yeah, I can't really speak to if there's been improvement because
01:10:32.975 --> 01:10:35.390 I wasn't here for previous ones, but.
01:10:33.080 --> 01:10:33.730 Sure.
01:10:35.280 --> 01:10:37.310 100% fair.
01:10:39.950 --> 01:10:40.880 So one of the big.
01:10:40.320 --> 01:10:44.616 I would, I would say, at least for for anaerobe it's OK but
01:10:44.616 --> 01:10:45.690 could use work.
01:10:47.200 --> 01:10:47.730 Awesome.
01:10:47.780 --> 01:10:49.130 In terms of communication.
01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:50.140 OK.
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:55.365 I think anaerobe was one of the very first, if it even got the
01:10:55.365 --> 01:10:57.430 full architecture process so.
01:10:56.650 --> 01:11:00.901 It's and it didn't get hardly any at all. It was but one of
01:10:57.240 --> 01:10:57.810 It didn't.
01:10:58.880 --> 01:10:59.570 Hardly anything.
01:10:59.170 --> 01:11:00.640 OK. Are they?
01:11:00.901 --> 01:11:02.460 the last old versions.
01:11:02.160 --> 01:11:06.050 It's the last one because it has like one or two things.
01:11:02.670 --> 01:11:03.280 Older.
01:11:03.730 --> 01:11:04.130 Yeah.
01:11:06.410 --> 01:11:06.840 OK.
01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:10.610 Got it. So I will say.
01:11:12.160 --> 01:11:17.930 Also marked improvement on the PM front for like the the work.
01:11:19.370 --> 01:11:24.943 And granted, Reged was a fairly small scope project, but I after
01:11:24.943 --> 01:11:26.400 this Sprint well.
01:11:27.160 --> 01:11:30.209 After the architecture was completed, I was able to Sprint
01:11:30.209 --> 01:11:33.310 plan the entire project in 9 minutes because everything was
01:11:33.310 --> 01:11:36.566 just there and it was all kind of interdependent and there was
01:11:36.566 --> 01:11:37.290 enough of the.
01:11:38.490 --> 01:11:42.524 Back end front end per ticket that like each developer was on
01:11:42.524 --> 01:11:43.370 each feature.
01:11:44.040 --> 01:11:48.053 Same from Mickey with PBC. That's amazing. And then the
01:11:48.053 --> 01:11:51.350 Sprint planning meeting that we had for that.
01:11:52.400 --> 01:11:56.512 Was such a like ingrained dialogue on each feature because
01:11:56.512 --> 01:12:00.275 it was like both of the developers kind of working on
01:12:00.275 --> 01:12:04.804 the whole project and seeing the whole thing from that like 1000
01:12:04.804 --> 01:12:08.219 foot view and trying to understand the workflows
01:12:08.219 --> 01:12:12.749 together. So it wasn't like just going in and reading the FSD or
01:12:12.749 --> 01:12:16.860 whatever we were looking at the board looking at the flow,
01:12:16.860 --> 01:12:19.090 looking at the architecture and.
01:12:20.480 --> 01:12:24.626 While there were still a lot of questions that kind of happened
01:12:24.626 --> 01:12:26.570 in the chat, it was primarily.
01:12:27.150 --> 01:12:27.770 Umm.
01:12:28.550 --> 01:12:32.931 It wasn't necessarily like how does this work flow work? It was
01:12:32.931 --> 01:12:37.380 more code specific questions, so we were able to get through the
01:12:37.380 --> 01:12:41.145 entirety of that project. I mean, there's a few little
01:12:41.145 --> 01:12:44.909 things coming up now that they're in their pilot or in
01:12:44.909 --> 01:12:46.210 their testing mode.
01:12:46.510 --> 01:12:50.098 Umm, in terms of like search results, but we were able to get
01:12:50.098 --> 01:12:53.050 through the whole proof of concept in two sprints.
01:12:55.490 --> 01:12:59.825 With minimal overages, I mean, there were some overages, but I
01:12:59.825 --> 01:13:04.160 think that that was more of like I think it was Jeremy's first
01:13:04.160 --> 01:13:08.082 Sprint that that project started. So not a huge deal and
01:13:04.280 --> 01:13:04.550 Yeah.
01:13:08.082 --> 01:13:10.490 the client you know is while they.
01:13:11.190 --> 01:13:14.230 They uh. Weren't hoping for that. Obviously, they're fine
01:13:14.230 --> 01:13:17.323 with it. And you know, we've worked out what we need to on
01:13:17.323 --> 01:13:17.900 that front.
01:13:19.260 --> 01:13:19.820 But.
01:13:21.080 --> 01:13:23.990 It's such a marked improvement like.
01:13:26.250 --> 01:13:30.255 As that Sprint was happening, I would occasionally just like go
01:13:30.255 --> 01:13:34.072 in and look at things like I recorded that demo the day that
01:13:34.072 --> 01:13:37.826 everything got pushed up and I had to go back to the Mirror
01:13:37.826 --> 01:13:41.330 board and look at the look at the architecture to know.
01:13:42.430 --> 01:13:46.027 Or how does this project work? Because I'm supposed to record a
01:13:44.690 --> 01:13:45.180 Yeah.
01:13:46.027 --> 01:13:49.511 demo of this whole thing, start to finish, and it happened so
01:13:49.511 --> 01:13:52.995 fast that I wasn't in the weeds with the client. You know, we
01:13:52.995 --> 01:13:55.973 weren't looking at it constantly. It was just one of
01:13:55.973 --> 01:13:59.120 those things like ohh the projects. I gotta go record a
01:13:59.120 --> 01:14:00.750 demo. OK, how does this work?
01:14:02.740 --> 01:14:06.710 Which was the most delightful problem I think I've had.
01:14:09.170 --> 01:14:09.590 Rare.
01:14:10.390 --> 01:14:12.260 Yeah, it was. It was.
01:14:11.840 --> 01:14:14.120 Well, maybe it is the new normal though, right, you know.
01:14:14.060 --> 01:14:14.560 Right.
01:14:15.280 --> 01:14:18.735 I mean, there's substantial for that like this project needed I
01:14:18.735 --> 01:14:22.137 I had of course the discovery meetings because this was before
01:14:22.137 --> 01:14:24.890 we kind of changed the onboarding process as well.
01:14:27.080 --> 01:14:28.720 But during the course of the build.
01:14:30.480 --> 01:14:33.997 After the end of the first Sprint, I gave them all of the
01:14:33.997 --> 01:14:37.514 project updates and details. Basically covered everything
01:14:37.514 --> 01:14:41.456 that I would normally cover in a meeting. I gave that to them in
01:14:41.456 --> 01:14:45.094 a basecamp post and then we didn't talk again until the day
01:14:45.094 --> 01:14:48.793 they're demo. There was such minimal PM involvement. Once we
01:14:48.793 --> 01:14:52.250 got through the discovery process that I think I logged.
01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:51.340 Mm-hmm.
01:14:52.910 --> 01:14:53.650 Two hours.
01:14:56.540 --> 01:14:57.650 That's bananas.
01:15:00.130 --> 01:15:01.240 We can do this guys.
01:15:04.970 --> 01:15:08.320 Absolutely. And I'm so excited for it because.
01:15:10.170 --> 01:15:12.090 We spend a lot of our day.
01:15:13.190 --> 01:15:16.101 Kind of hand holding with clients and that's never gonna
01:15:16.101 --> 01:15:16.510 go away.
01:15:17.240 --> 01:15:19.669 Clients are going to need that like this is a group of
01:15:19.669 --> 01:15:22.408 scientists. They're they're they wanna go do their own thing.
01:15:22.408 --> 01:15:25.147 They wanna hypothesize on what's happening over here and then
01:15:25.147 --> 01:15:25.500 test it.
01:15:28.120 --> 01:15:33.075 Which is fine, but they're still gonna be hand holding. But the
01:15:33.075 --> 01:15:37.875 more that we streamline these internal processes and are able
01:15:37.875 --> 01:15:42.133 to move things along more efficiently, that just moves
01:15:42.133 --> 01:15:44.920 into the PM team as a whole and so.
01:15:46.260 --> 01:15:49.473 I know all of you are aware that I'm kind of working on that PM
01:15:49.473 --> 01:15:52.485 task and cadence document and obviously I need to go in and
01:15:52.485 --> 01:15:55.297 clean up some code. Complete stuff now cause haha cause
01:15:55.297 --> 01:15:56.150 Daniel's amazing.
01:15:59.440 --> 01:16:03.533 But as I kind of moved through that, I'm looking for these
01:16:03.533 --> 01:16:07.557 areas in our day-to-day that are that tend to be slightly
01:16:07.557 --> 01:16:11.651 inefficient and the more we can make the project lifecycle
01:16:11.651 --> 01:16:16.022 efficient, the more time we're going to get back to be able to
01:16:16.022 --> 01:16:19.976 truly dive in on these clients that need that extra hand
01:16:19.976 --> 01:16:24.278 holding and all of that kind of stuff. So it's gonna increase
01:16:24.278 --> 01:16:28.510 client satisfaction because they're going to be seeing this.
01:16:28.790 --> 01:16:29.210 You know.
01:16:30.210 --> 01:16:34.043 Deliverable happening on a regular cadence and they know
01:16:34.043 --> 01:16:38.347 that you know. Ohh hey, I want to talk to my project manager. I
01:16:38.347 --> 01:16:42.650 should be able to get a hold of them in a relatively short turn
01:16:42.650 --> 01:16:46.819 around and they're going to feel that relationship change and
01:16:46.819 --> 01:16:51.056 feel that like partnership much more thoroughly and it's going
01:16:51.056 --> 01:16:55.426 to increase them coming back and being referral partners and all
01:16:55.426 --> 01:16:59.259 of that kind of stuff. So it's just this constant upward
01:16:59.259 --> 01:16:59.730 spiral.
01:17:00.500 --> 01:17:04.297 As we continue to improve this process, so while it might feel
01:17:04.297 --> 01:17:07.853 a little bit nebulous in the moment and like, ohh my gosh,
01:17:07.853 --> 01:17:11.650 there's so many moving pieces and I have all of these shifting
01:17:11.650 --> 01:17:13.940 changes that are happening right now.
01:17:14.810 --> 01:17:16.360 I promise you, it's worth it.
01:17:17.480 --> 01:17:21.141 It's no part of me wants to constant micromanage, but I
01:17:21.141 --> 01:17:24.867 think that we're going to get to a point where that will
01:17:24.867 --> 01:17:28.855 absolutely shift because we have documented our processes so
01:17:28.855 --> 01:17:33.038 completely and so thoroughly and we are able to deliver amazing
01:17:33.038 --> 01:17:36.634 projects on a very quick turnaround and a very awesome
01:17:36.634 --> 01:17:40.491 cadence. So I'm super excited about the future and I think
01:17:40.491 --> 01:17:44.544 that if we keep this level of collaboration and talking about
01:17:44.544 --> 01:17:48.335 the experiences that we're having with these projects and
01:17:48.335 --> 01:17:50.100 finding ways to shift them.
01:17:50.180 --> 01:17:54.410 As long as we remember, the only constant is change and we're
01:17:54.410 --> 01:17:58.503 able to adapt. This thing is going to blow up. So thank you
01:17:58.503 --> 01:18:02.527 so much. We've got about 10 minutes left. I want everybody
01:18:02.527 --> 01:18:06.825 to go put in your PM Invoicing notes. Do your time logs. Check
01:18:06.825 --> 01:18:11.259 needs reallocation before you do your PM Invoicing notes so that
01:18:11.259 --> 01:18:15.284 those numbers are accurate. And I hope you have an amazing
01:18:15.284 --> 01:18:15.830 weekend.
01:18:17.850 --> 01:18:18.740 Yeah, right.
01:18:18.630 --> 01:18:22.690 Hi everybody ohh a quick question Daniel.
01:18:20.520 --> 01:18:21.200 Thanks everybody.
01:18:23.500 --> 01:18:23.990 Uh.
01:18:25.210 --> 01:18:30.736 For updating the Nuclino article for uh, code completes our
01:18:30.736 --> 01:18:32.210 developers jobs.
01:18:33.430 --> 01:18:36.378 Is that gonna be on the code complete audit or the code
01:18:36.378 --> 01:18:39.010 complete tasks, slash QA walkthrough and or both?
01:18:38.580 --> 01:18:41.810 Let's do both. Both. Yeah. And here real quick 41 leaves.
01:18:39.670 --> 01:18:39.940 OK.
01:18:43.650 --> 01:18:44.240 They all here.
01:18:45.070 --> 01:18:48.200 Real quick, sorry if anyone said they were gonna leave.
01:18:48.910 --> 01:18:49.620 Just client.
01:18:50.600 --> 01:18:51.200 Uh.
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:51.890 There's this, Clint.
01:18:52.690 --> 01:18:55.520 Clint can go. You know why Co.
01:18:55.600 --> 01:18:56.990 Deen.
01:18:57.370 --> 01:19:01.080 Ohh asana. Damn, Daniel, you're amazing. Thank you.
01:19:02.110 --> 01:19:04.170 Try this. Stuff was from last Sprint.
01:19:08.630 --> 01:19:11.095 Did you do that in this Sprint audit? Find out what's going
01:19:11.095 --> 01:19:11.300 over.
01:19:16.180 --> 01:19:18.410 Yeah, I got a lot to to dig through there.
01:19:19.020 --> 01:19:23.220 So I would say for these, it's gonna be silly to do them at
01:19:23.220 --> 01:19:27.840 this point in this point, almost done. So let's just move them to
01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:29.730 this next Sprint, but like.
01:19:30.490 --> 01:19:32.920 We're going to throw an urgent on here.
01:19:55.200 --> 01:19:55.550 OK.
01:19:56.870 --> 01:19:58.620 He Trenton.
01:20:02.470 --> 01:20:03.870 Some of this Max launched letter.
01:20:04.230 --> 01:20:05.690 Yeah, I just got to get those over to Stephanie.
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:07.140 It's done.
01:20:06.820 --> 01:20:09.760 That's a no, it's not done. That's a quick one, though.
01:20:10.350 --> 01:20:14.100 OK, before you log off this is I guess.
01:20:15.170 --> 01:20:16.220 Nine days old.
01:20:16.690 --> 01:20:17.030 Yeah.
01:20:18.050 --> 01:20:21.310 And then James Gray still blocked on GFS.
01:20:21.280 --> 01:20:24.134 Yeah, we requested the mapping file from Don yesterday, but I
01:20:24.134 --> 01:20:26.850 can't really check it off until we get that back from him.
01:20:24.510 --> 01:20:24.800 Cool.
01:20:26.900 --> 01:20:28.620 It's OK, the note got sent out though.
01:20:29.470 --> 01:20:32.430 Yes, we we talked to him in a meeting yesterday.
01:20:32.450 --> 01:20:35.585 Love it. Perfect. OK, cool. Complete check. We just went
01:20:35.585 --> 01:20:38.940 over that, and let's just let's find another way about that.
01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:37.160 Yep.
01:20:40.160 --> 01:20:44.669 I got into that one overdue and then pivot to prod message to
01:20:44.130 --> 01:20:47.120 Oh, yes, yes. Still need to do that. I got sidetracked earlier.
01:20:44.669 --> 01:20:44.960 Max.
01:20:45.640 --> 01:20:46.510 That's today.
01:20:47.500 --> 01:20:51.043 Coco and then GFS at that same block with James so we can put
01:20:51.043 --> 01:20:53.100 that out to I think we said Monday.
01:20:53.160 --> 01:20:53.530 Book.
01:20:53.530 --> 01:20:56.175 Yeah, that one. That one is a different block, but I also
01:20:56.175 --> 01:20:57.360 talked to them about that.
01:20:57.480 --> 01:21:00.380 OK. And then what's the story with this GFS putting we
01:21:00.380 --> 01:21:03.490 estimates in their EP, is that done yet those 21 days old?
01:21:02.690 --> 01:21:07.226 No, no, because we're getting, uh, we're doing like a whole
01:21:07.226 --> 01:21:11.460 basically internal rebuild of the FSD kind of for that.
01:21:12.470 --> 01:21:12.880 OK.
01:21:12.620 --> 01:21:16.883 So we'll have a better idea of what those estimates even are,
01:21:16.883 --> 01:21:21.283 because we're doing our best to not ask the client because it's
01:21:21.283 --> 01:21:23.690 gonna reflect really bad on us if.
01:21:24.310 --> 01:21:24.600 OK.
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:25.720 If we do that.
01:21:26.350 --> 01:21:29.854 And then Stortz has been blocked for month, so they're gonna be
01:21:28.980 --> 01:21:29.770 I know.
01:21:29.854 --> 01:21:31.770 ****** as hell at us. They aren't.
01:21:31.110 --> 01:21:35.336 They so they they are not ****** at us, at least not not from the
01:21:34.040 --> 01:21:34.900 Ohh cool. OK.
01:21:35.336 --> 01:21:39.113 context of the most recent e-mail, which was this morning.
01:21:39.113 --> 01:21:40.970 They're ****** at the IT guy.
01:21:39.150 --> 01:21:39.440 OK.
01:21:41.350 --> 01:21:42.760 OK, I'll take it.
01:21:42.340 --> 01:21:44.670 He's he's the one holding it up so.
01:21:44.590 --> 01:21:47.320 And they they just. It's a bit thoroughly documented that.
01:21:49.050 --> 01:21:52.645 That we haven't started any work at all. That's in basecamp.
01:21:51.740 --> 01:21:53.040 Yes, yes.
01:21:52.645 --> 01:21:52.940 Cool.
01:21:54.050 --> 01:21:56.200 Love it. Nice, nice, nice.
01:21:57.090 --> 01:21:59.900 Amy. OK. Complete check. OK.
01:21:59.330 --> 01:22:00.010 Yes.
01:22:00.650 --> 01:22:02.310 Cool, cool. Alright.
01:22:04.730 --> 01:22:07.811 Concern about that will push that down to the next one. Nice.
01:22:07.811 --> 01:22:09.500 OK, thanks, Sal. That was my bet.
01:22:12.930 --> 01:22:13.180 Chad.
01:22:13.260 --> 01:22:15.570 Since doing her sauna right now.
01:22:15.760 --> 01:22:17.310 Shelton Scott, his hand raised.
01:22:17.050 --> 01:22:20.260 Yeah, I have a quick question for you all.
01:22:17.590 --> 01:22:18.520 Sprinkles.
01:22:19.140 --> 01:22:19.850 Sprinkles.
01:22:21.750 --> 01:22:26.055 So with Rockingham, we have a little bit of a contract dispute
01:22:26.055 --> 01:22:29.677 from one of the the team members. The rest seemed to
01:22:29.677 --> 01:22:34.050 agree with us that the marketing site redesign was not included
01:22:34.050 --> 01:22:37.740 in the contract and we've checked twice and it's not.
01:22:40.050 --> 01:22:44.057 And we've relayed that, but they've brought it up again that
01:22:44.057 --> 01:22:48.262 it is in fact included. So what would jaws recommendation be to
01:22:48.262 --> 01:22:49.510 how to handle that?
01:22:50.530 --> 01:22:51.150 I'll fight him.
01:22:52.300 --> 01:22:55.350 Where do they just? They're just saying the contract is wrong.
01:22:52.780 --> 01:22:53.160 Yeah.
01:22:55.710 --> 01:22:58.963 They're saying that the marketing site redesign was
01:22:58.963 --> 01:23:02.843 included, but it is not at all and we even we sent him a very
01:23:02.843 --> 01:23:06.909 lengthy basecamp message of how we can handle it if they want to
01:23:06.909 --> 01:23:10.851 include it, but that it is not included and feel checked again
01:23:10.851 --> 01:23:14.480 this morning just to make sure and it is not in there so.
01:23:14.250 --> 01:23:15.760 Why do they think that it is?
01:23:17.690 --> 01:23:20.140 You just that sigh. That's why.
01:23:17.970 --> 01:23:18.980 I'm not sure.
01:23:20.520 --> 01:23:25.168 I'm really not sure to be honest. Maybe they're taking the
01:23:25.168 --> 01:23:29.973 design line item as marketing site redesigns, but that's for
01:23:29.973 --> 01:23:32.100 the actual catalog designs.
01:23:34.400 --> 01:23:37.765 I'm not really sure how they got the impression that it was
01:23:37.765 --> 01:23:38.270 included.
01:23:38.850 --> 01:23:42.639 All they seem to say was that the sales team told them it was.
01:23:42.639 --> 01:23:43.180 That was.
01:23:43.110 --> 01:23:43.540 Wow.
01:23:43.690 --> 01:23:44.820 So let's find the recording.
01:23:44.550 --> 01:23:45.010 All they.
01:23:45.150 --> 01:23:46.800 Yeah, that's find the recording.
01:23:47.660 --> 01:23:49.090 Reach out to.
01:23:47.860 --> 01:23:48.170 Yeah.
01:23:50.210 --> 01:23:52.620 Kyle or Phil or Ron?
01:23:51.500 --> 01:23:52.150 Yeah.
01:23:53.380 --> 01:23:55.332 Yeah. Say, hey, you have a recording of the when you talk
01:23:55.332 --> 01:23:55.870 to these people.
01:23:56.790 --> 01:23:59.991 They should because they use gong and it supposedly supposed
01:23:59.490 --> 01:23:59.800 Yeah.
01:23:59.991 --> 01:24:01.460 to keep track of everything.
01:24:00.330 --> 01:24:00.860 Ohh.
01:24:01.780 --> 01:24:04.790 Let me see if it got plopped into.
01:24:05.550 --> 01:24:07.860 I don't know if Kyle's moved them all yet.
01:24:05.850 --> 01:24:08.000 My sneaky teams channel.
01:24:09.190 --> 01:24:11.741 I don't know if Kyle's moved them all yet, though I know that
01:24:09.200 --> 01:24:09.950 Ah.
01:24:11.530 --> 01:24:11.880 I'll just.
01:24:11.741 --> 01:24:12.770 they're talking about it.
01:24:13.470 --> 01:24:15.550 I'll just poke him right now. Poke, poke.
01:24:16.050 --> 01:24:18.070 Files out of office today. He's on PTO.
01:24:19.540 --> 01:24:20.980 Kill answer me now. I'm kidding.
01:24:22.920 --> 01:24:25.125 We'll get it. We'll get it squared away. We'll get those
01:24:25.125 --> 01:24:25.550 recordings.
01:24:27.440 --> 01:24:27.820 Go.
01:24:28.720 --> 01:24:32.514 But yeah, that's that's the easiest is just now we're going
01:24:32.514 --> 01:24:36.119 to go back and review and document that, but this is not
01:24:36.119 --> 01:24:40.040 what we have included based on a high level overview, we will
01:24:40.040 --> 01:24:44.024 review internally, say it much nicer than that. I can give you
01:24:44.024 --> 01:24:47.060 some verbiage, tips, Mickey's got this she can.
01:24:48.080 --> 01:24:49.730 She converged. Tip that.
01:24:48.660 --> 01:24:49.130 Yes.
01:24:50.360 --> 01:24:50.740 Sweet.
01:24:53.260 --> 01:24:55.890 Cool, cool. Alright, that's my only question.
01:24:57.710 --> 01:24:59.740 I mean, it's a good one.
01:25:01.900 --> 01:25:05.701 It's really gonna cool alright, but have a good weekend. Bye
01:25:05.410 --> 01:25:07.990 Have a great weekend. Goodbye.
01:25:05.701 --> 01:25:05.950 bye.
01:25:07.380 --> 01:25:08.060 Bye.
01:25:08.200 --> 01:25:08.710 Thanks all.