00:00:06.314 --> 00:00:10.401 Alright, so welcome everybody. Today we are going to be talking
00:00:10.401 --> 00:00:12.764 about customer service, soft skills.
00:00:13.724 --> 00:00:16.054 So let's just dive right in.
00:00:16.944 --> 00:00:21.250 So the first thing I wanted to go over is what customer soft,
00:00:21.250 --> 00:00:25.278 customer service, soft skills entail and 1st on that list
00:00:25.278 --> 00:00:29.792 would be rapport and empathy. So this is concerned with building
00:00:29.792 --> 00:00:32.014 relationships with your clients.
00:00:32.754 --> 00:00:37.058 The second core tenant there is going to be language and
00:00:37.058 --> 00:00:40.984 verbiage choosing what words we use with intention.
00:00:42.234 --> 00:00:46.225 A third one being mindset. How we think about our clients and
00:00:46.225 --> 00:00:50.150 this also talks about how we talk about them internally kind
00:00:50.150 --> 00:00:54.076 of language we use there both in our own heads and with each
00:00:54.076 --> 00:00:56.264 other when talking about clients.
00:00:57.294 --> 00:01:02.193 The 4th 1 being positive language kind of tied into the
00:01:02.193 --> 00:01:05.254 second one, but more referring to.
00:01:06.444 --> 00:01:07.074 Trying to.
00:01:08.104 --> 00:01:13.087 Manage the situation by what we say, in addition to how we say
00:01:13.087 --> 00:01:13.324 it.
00:01:14.874 --> 00:01:18.768 This one being changed management, how we help the
00:01:18.768 --> 00:01:23.425 client see the bigger picture and manage things as they need
00:01:23.425 --> 00:01:27.930 to evolve throughout the life cycle of the project and the
00:01:27.930 --> 00:01:32.510 6th. 1 being ownership and escalation, talking about taking
00:01:32.510 --> 00:01:36.710 accountability for our own actions and how to help the
00:01:36.710 --> 00:01:41.672 clients take accountability for their own and bring temperatures
00:01:41.672 --> 00:01:43.504 down when they flare up.
00:01:45.174 --> 00:01:49.356 So moving forward into going deeper into each of those
00:01:49.356 --> 00:01:53.842 quarter tenants, I will start with rapport and empathy. So
00:01:53.842 --> 00:01:58.481 they're very tied together, but they're not exactly the same
00:01:58.481 --> 00:02:02.662 thing. Report is talking about the friendly, congenial
00:02:02.662 --> 00:02:07.605 relationship that we build with customers. This fosters trust in
00:02:07.605 --> 00:02:12.167 the relationship, and it's really about looking for ways to
00:02:12.167 --> 00:02:15.284 find common ground to make a connection.
00:02:15.534 --> 00:02:18.556 You know, so customers are people too. They have interests
00:02:18.556 --> 00:02:21.577 in their own lives. They have things that are important to
00:02:21.577 --> 00:02:24.752 them. They have family, they have friends, they have TV shows
00:02:24.752 --> 00:02:25.264 they like.
00:02:26.254 --> 00:02:28.986 We don't have a lot of time to talk to them about these kind of
00:02:28.986 --> 00:02:31.718 things because obviously we want to focus client billable hours
00:02:31.718 --> 00:02:33.254 on actually getting work done, but.
00:02:33.934 --> 00:02:37.638 There is something to be said for making small gestures,
00:02:37.638 --> 00:02:41.797 asking how somebody's day was, you know, if they said they went
00:02:41.797 --> 00:02:45.631 on a recent trip to Florida, remembering that for the next
00:02:45.631 --> 00:02:49.529 time you talked to them and asking them if they're missing,
00:02:49.529 --> 00:02:53.688 the warm weather is the little things to make them realize that
00:02:53.688 --> 00:02:57.587 you see them as a human being and that you are also a human
00:02:57.587 --> 00:03:01.420 being and that can build a lot of trust in goodwill in the
00:03:01.420 --> 00:03:04.344 relationship that can kind of help you when.
00:03:04.444 --> 00:03:08.422 Things aren't all sunshine and roses, so these are really
00:03:08.422 --> 00:03:12.331 important things to keep in mind, and it really lets the
00:03:12.331 --> 00:03:16.172 client know that we have their whole interest and their
00:03:16.172 --> 00:03:20.424 well-being in mind when we're working with them. So obviously
00:03:20.424 --> 00:03:24.744 the one caveat there is you do want to make sure you are being
00:03:24.744 --> 00:03:29.134 professional. So you definitely want to monitor what you choose
00:03:29.134 --> 00:03:32.906 to build that point of connection on. You want to make
00:03:32.906 --> 00:03:34.894 sure it is something that is.
00:03:35.054 --> 00:03:38.767 Suitable for the workplace. Not that I think anyone here needs
00:03:38.767 --> 00:03:41.124 that call out, but I'll make it anyway.
00:03:42.444 --> 00:03:45.094 Second, Cortana here being empathy.
00:03:45.984 --> 00:03:49.699 So no matter what we do in our jobs, there's going to be a time
00:03:49.699 --> 00:03:53.182 which a project is gonna have bad news. You know, something
00:03:53.182 --> 00:03:56.781 went over budget, something went over timeline. We can't do a
00:03:56.781 --> 00:04:00.264 thing that we thought we could do. Any one of those things.
00:04:01.534 --> 00:04:05.267 Building an empathetic relationship between yourself
00:04:05.267 --> 00:04:09.493 and your client can go a long way in kind of mitigating the
00:04:09.493 --> 00:04:13.578 hard edges of having to deliver those pieces of bad news,
00:04:13.578 --> 00:04:17.452 because it'll be more like telling your friend, hey, I
00:04:17.452 --> 00:04:21.960 can't help you move next weekend versus delivering some sort of
00:04:21.960 --> 00:04:24.354 veiled Barb to an enemy you know.
00:04:25.044 --> 00:04:28.797 So you wanna be thoughtful when you have to share bad news and
00:04:28.797 --> 00:04:30.464 share it in such a way that.
00:04:31.104 --> 00:04:35.542 You're acknowledging that you understand the negative impact
00:04:35.542 --> 00:04:39.761 on your client and their business that you understand and
00:04:39.761 --> 00:04:44.344 are empathetic to their needs, and they understand how a thing
00:04:44.344 --> 00:04:48.709 happened and sometimes equally more importantly, how you're
00:04:48.709 --> 00:04:50.454 going to make it better.
00:04:51.374 --> 00:04:53.878 Obviously you're not always going to be able to make it
00:04:53.878 --> 00:04:54.414 better, but.
00:04:55.154 --> 00:04:58.832 It's always very helpful to kind of approach delivering bad news
00:04:58.832 --> 00:04:59.114 with.
00:04:59.754 --> 00:05:02.596 You know a lollipop. The end of this bad thing happened. And
00:05:02.596 --> 00:05:05.204 this is how we're going to manage it. This is how we're
00:05:05.204 --> 00:05:06.974 going to try to come back from it or.
00:05:07.764 --> 00:05:09.404 You know, make things a little bit better.
00:05:10.764 --> 00:05:14.995 But you do always need to be honest. Obviously, you never
00:05:14.995 --> 00:05:19.517 apologize for something that is part of a clarity, process or
00:05:19.517 --> 00:05:23.602 procedure, but you need to acknowledge times when those
00:05:23.602 --> 00:05:25.644 policies and procedures may.
00:05:26.764 --> 00:05:30.079 Not be what the client needed and or wanted, and that you
00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:33.222 acknowledge the dissonance between their needs and our
00:05:33.222 --> 00:05:36.708 needs and kind of try to help them see the bigger picture of
00:05:36.708 --> 00:05:40.080 why this one thing may be a disappointment, but it's going
00:05:40.080 --> 00:05:42.594 to support us through the long run overall.
00:05:44.104 --> 00:05:46.354 So moving forward.
00:05:47.014 --> 00:05:50.155 On to the next couple of coordinates which are language
00:05:50.155 --> 00:05:50.884 and verbiage.
00:05:52.014 --> 00:05:56.114 So language talking about how you get your point across,
00:05:56.114 --> 00:05:58.774 especially in written communication.
00:05:59.204 --> 00:06:03.038 Umm, it's not always easy because we all have very set
00:06:03.038 --> 00:06:07.429 patterns of how we speak, how we write, you know, it's getting
00:06:07.429 --> 00:06:11.193 away from habits can be difficult, but the number one
00:06:11.193 --> 00:06:15.514 thing you can do is take time. So when you are writing a note
00:06:15.514 --> 00:06:17.744 to a client before you hit send.
00:06:18.464 --> 00:06:22.583 Take a second step back from what you've written and try to
00:06:22.583 --> 00:06:26.564 reread your note or your e-mail from their point of view.
00:06:26.564 --> 00:06:30.545 Imagine if you were the 1 receiving this in your own life
00:06:30.545 --> 00:06:34.251 from an your own business interactions, somebody that
00:06:34.251 --> 00:06:38.232 who's you know, who's services that you patronize. If you
00:06:38.232 --> 00:06:40.634 receive this note in that mindset.
00:06:41.414 --> 00:06:42.244 How would it read?
00:06:43.054 --> 00:06:47.552 How would you feel in reaction to what you've written? Every
00:06:47.552 --> 00:06:52.050 word and sentence deserves a critical eye because any little
00:06:52.050 --> 00:06:56.327 slip can be impactful to somebody else. So we always want
00:06:56.327 --> 00:07:00.972 to try to make sure that we are approaching things in the best
00:07:00.972 --> 00:07:05.322 possible way with the most professional possible tone. And
00:07:05.322 --> 00:07:06.944 you know kindness and.
00:07:07.844 --> 00:07:12.474 Other peoples personalities and personhood's in mind.
00:07:13.514 --> 00:07:16.974 And if you're ever unsure, get a second set of eyes.
00:07:17.694 --> 00:07:20.924 Somebody else's perspective is always going to be helpful. It
00:07:20.924 --> 00:07:24.258 doesn't matter how long you've been doing this. Stephanie still
00:07:24.258 --> 00:07:27.487 has somebody read some things sometimes and she is one of the
00:07:27.487 --> 00:07:29.414 best words miss I have ever met. So.
00:07:30.284 --> 00:07:33.738 Never hesitate to have somebody else look at your e-mail. Look
00:07:33.738 --> 00:07:36.917 at your basecamp message. Look at your report that you've
00:07:36.917 --> 00:07:40.316 pulled up any of those things. I will volunteer right now. In
00:07:40.316 --> 00:07:43.715 this moment, I am always open for that. You want a second set
00:07:43.715 --> 00:07:47.278 of eyes on something? Ping me. I will read it. I have absolutely
00:07:47.278 --> 00:07:49.854 zero problem doing that and I'm happy to help.
00:07:51.514 --> 00:07:53.014 Kind of tied in with language.
00:07:53.794 --> 00:07:56.554 And how we write? We also wanna think about.
00:07:57.474 --> 00:08:01.644 The emotion with which we write and with which we speak.
00:08:03.874 --> 00:08:07.283 When you are dealing with a client, you always want to
00:08:07.283 --> 00:08:10.940 present things in a positive light, and you always want to
00:08:10.940 --> 00:08:13.977 present them in a positive light. Can clients be
00:08:13.977 --> 00:08:15.464 frustrating? Absolutely.
00:08:16.904 --> 00:08:20.907 But we need to not let that color the words we choose and
00:08:20.907 --> 00:08:23.874 the emotion that we present when we speak.
00:08:25.634 --> 00:08:28.866 Because it sets the tone for every other additional
00:08:28.866 --> 00:08:32.718 conversation. Wherever gonna have with with these individuals
00:08:32.718 --> 00:08:36.384 and it will color the mindset with which they approach and
00:08:36.384 --> 00:08:37.254 respond to us.
00:08:38.444 --> 00:08:42.300 So one of the examples that's here on the screen is talking
00:08:42.300 --> 00:08:46.285 about this connotation, positive or negative wise of specific
00:08:46.285 --> 00:08:50.205 words. So thinking about the sentence of you have a negative
00:08:50.205 --> 00:08:54.318 balance on your account that you need to pay off versus we need
00:08:54.318 --> 00:08:58.303 to get the account to a positive hours balance so that we can
00:08:58.303 --> 00:09:01.709 press forward. The first sentence is very focused on
00:09:01.709 --> 00:09:03.444 what's wrong and it's very.
00:09:04.384 --> 00:09:09.146 That not necessarily attack, but it's pushing the onus onto them
00:09:09.146 --> 00:09:13.835 for what they've done, quote UN quote. Wrong. While that may be
00:09:13.835 --> 00:09:18.158 the reality of the situation, they have a negative balance
00:09:18.158 --> 00:09:21.674 that needs to be paid. That may be the reality.
00:09:22.344 --> 00:09:26.011 But if you word it that way, it can get a very standoffish
00:09:26.011 --> 00:09:29.925 negative response because the client feels like you're telling
00:09:29.925 --> 00:09:33.654 them they did something wrong. No one likes that. So if you
00:09:33.654 --> 00:09:37.568 approach it from a we statement from a more positive light of,
00:09:37.568 --> 00:09:41.234 we need to do this thing so that we can achieve this goal.
00:09:42.874 --> 00:09:46.833 It has a much more positive forward-looking tone to it and
00:09:46.833 --> 00:09:50.791 is not focused on blaming for past behavior, but achieving
00:09:50.791 --> 00:09:51.864 better behavior.
00:09:52.874 --> 00:09:56.043 So it's definitely going to color how your client responds
00:09:56.043 --> 00:09:59.104 to the same request for a, you know, an invoice payment.
00:10:00.514 --> 00:10:01.694 In a completely different way.
00:10:03.634 --> 00:10:06.986 And this is also a big part of how you present yourself
00:10:06.986 --> 00:10:07.704 emotionally.
00:10:08.544 --> 00:10:11.735 It's going to color how people respond to you, so if you go
00:10:11.735 --> 00:10:14.872 into a meeting and you're anxious and your client can tell
00:10:14.872 --> 00:10:16.414 that you're anxious or upset.
00:10:17.204 --> 00:10:21.004 That anxiety, that emotional tone is going to.
00:10:21.684 --> 00:10:24.757 Pour on to them and they're most likely going to mirror it back
00:10:24.757 --> 00:10:27.686 to you. So if you act English, they're gonna get anxious. If
00:10:27.686 --> 00:10:30.566 you're upset and frustrated and angry, they're going to get
00:10:30.566 --> 00:10:31.574 frustrated and angry.
00:10:32.534 --> 00:10:35.304 So you have to present yourself as.
00:10:36.304 --> 00:10:37.564 Everything is going great.
00:10:39.814 --> 00:10:43.350 And I will pause in this moment to tell a funny story that
00:10:43.350 --> 00:10:47.005 hopefully we'll kind of give you an idea of what I'm talking
00:10:47.005 --> 00:10:47.364 about.
00:10:48.104 --> 00:10:51.383 So in one of my many previous careers, I was a wedding planner
00:10:51.383 --> 00:10:54.505 for a event venue, and the way we used to work is we'd have
00:10:54.505 --> 00:10:57.784 brides come in on an early on a Saturday morning, decorate the
00:10:57.784 --> 00:11:01.115 space, and then they'd leave to go do their hair and makeup and
00:11:01.115 --> 00:11:04.133 their ceremony. Or what else? And while they were gone in
00:11:04.133 --> 00:11:07.516 before their reception started, we would give tours of the space
00:11:07.516 --> 00:11:10.794 and it really worked out nicely. It was great business choice.
00:11:12.224 --> 00:11:15.580 One of the times I was doing this I was giving a tour for
00:11:15.580 --> 00:11:18.994 potential bride's family had already left after decorating
00:11:18.994 --> 00:11:22.176 the space and we had a commercial kitchen in the venue
00:11:22.176 --> 00:11:25.473 and I don't know what anyone here knows about commercial
00:11:25.473 --> 00:11:28.945 visions, but commercial kitchens have commercial stoves and
00:11:28.945 --> 00:11:32.300 commercial stoves do not function like our stoves at home
00:11:32.300 --> 00:11:35.482 they have permanent pilot lights. They are always lit.
00:11:35.482 --> 00:11:38.896 There's always a tiny little Spire birding in a commercial
00:11:38.896 --> 00:11:42.541 kitchen, so I'm giving a tour to this perspective. Brian and I
00:11:42.541 --> 00:11:44.334 walk past the kitchen entrance.
00:11:44.604 --> 00:11:47.821 With the bride and her mom in tottering behind me like little
00:11:47.821 --> 00:11:51.038 duck, and I looked to my left and there are flames, there was
00:11:51.038 --> 00:11:54.359 a fire going on in the kitchen. If I had reacted in that moment
00:11:54.359 --> 00:11:57.264 and started screaming and running around like a chicken
00:11:57.264 --> 00:12:00.429 with my head cut off, what do you think my client would have
00:12:00.429 --> 00:12:03.594 done? What do you think? Have think they would have reacted.
00:12:04.534 --> 00:12:07.256 Instead, I very calmly was like, and we're going to go out the
00:12:07.256 --> 00:12:09.847 front door right now. We walk them outside. I said you guys
00:12:09.847 --> 00:12:12.526 just go down those stairs, stand at the bottom. I'll be right
00:12:12.526 --> 00:12:12.914 with you.
00:12:13.874 --> 00:12:16.913 Turned around back into the fire, into the venue, grab the
00:12:16.913 --> 00:12:20.055 fire extinguisher and put the fire out. Also called 911, but
00:12:20.055 --> 00:12:22.837 that's a separate issue. Point being because I didn't
00:12:22.837 --> 00:12:25.824 demonstrate that freak out that I was feeling internally.
00:12:26.534 --> 00:12:30.506 My client didn't freak out. They didn't have a bad day, even
00:12:30.506 --> 00:12:34.282 though they could have. And would they have probably been
00:12:34.282 --> 00:12:35.584 right to? Sure, but.
00:12:36.684 --> 00:12:40.327 It's a way that you can manage the emotional response of people
00:12:40.327 --> 00:12:43.799 around you by managing your own emotional response. It's not
00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:45.734 easy, but it can be very helpful.
00:12:47.394 --> 00:12:48.204 Moving forward.
00:12:49.284 --> 00:12:51.754 Our next tenant, we're going to talk about is mindset.
00:12:53.074 --> 00:12:55.422 The things that we wanna remember when we're thinking
00:12:55.422 --> 00:12:56.204 about our mindset.
00:12:57.504 --> 00:13:00.704 Is that we don't necessarily know the full picture of
00:13:00.704 --> 00:13:04.437 everything that's going on. Our client may come to us and they
00:13:04.437 --> 00:13:07.756 may seem angry or frustrated. We don't necessarily know
00:13:07.756 --> 00:13:11.074 everything that's going on and their business and their
00:13:11.074 --> 00:13:14.392 personal life in that moment. So judging them for being
00:13:14.392 --> 00:13:18.066 frustrated or upset is not going to serve us because we don't
00:13:18.066 --> 00:13:21.740 have the full picture and it's not our place to judge whether
00:13:21.740 --> 00:13:25.177 or not what they are displaying to us is warranted by the
00:13:25.177 --> 00:13:28.910 situation because this situation could be colored by a million
00:13:28.910 --> 00:13:29.324 things.
00:13:29.614 --> 00:13:31.344 That we have no knowledge of.
00:13:33.854 --> 00:13:37.093 Our clients are the reason we are here, regardless of what
00:13:37.093 --> 00:13:40.552 kind of bad day they're having. Without them being present, we
00:13:40.552 --> 00:13:41.814 wouldn't have our jobs.
00:13:42.624 --> 00:13:45.413 We always need to be treating our clients with respect and
00:13:45.413 --> 00:13:47.634 kindness, just like we would treat each other.
00:13:48.854 --> 00:13:52.672 We are never in an US versus them situation with our clients,
00:13:52.672 --> 00:13:56.428 despite how sometimes it can feel like that sometimes when a
00:13:56.428 --> 00:14:00.307 client's frustrated, it can feel like they're attacking us and
00:14:00.307 --> 00:14:04.125 they're the bad guy. We're the good guy and we're on opposing
00:14:04.125 --> 00:14:07.758 teams. We're fighting each other, but that's not the case.
00:14:07.758 --> 00:14:11.514 We are all here for the same goals. We all want our projects
00:14:11.514 --> 00:14:15.393 to go well for everything to be developed smoothly with as few
00:14:15.393 --> 00:14:19.026 errors and as few issues as possible. And you know, launch
00:14:19.026 --> 00:14:20.934 their site and have them happy.
00:14:21.024 --> 00:14:23.474 And making money and doing well.
00:14:24.224 --> 00:14:27.915 That's all of our goals and we need to always keep that in mind
00:14:27.915 --> 00:14:30.914 and conduct ourselves in the such a way that we are
00:14:30.914 --> 00:14:32.644 demonstrating that externally.
00:14:35.244 --> 00:14:36.284 That being said.
00:14:37.614 --> 00:14:42.668 That's a big part of why we need to monitor our emotional state
00:14:42.668 --> 00:14:47.484 when we deliver bad requests or bad news or change requests.
00:14:48.304 --> 00:14:53.054 Because if we allow ourselves to get upset, anxious.
00:14:53.764 --> 00:14:54.544 Frustrated.
00:14:55.324 --> 00:14:58.997 Any of those things, like I said before, they're gonna feed off
00:14:58.997 --> 00:14:59.284 that.
00:15:00.114 --> 00:15:03.643 So we can't allow those kind of anxieties to color how we
00:15:03.643 --> 00:15:07.294 interact with our clients. We need to project confidence so
00:15:07.294 --> 00:15:09.484 that they can feel confident in US.
00:15:10.394 --> 00:15:12.724 And even if they have a bad reaction.
00:15:13.964 --> 00:15:16.698 We still need to approach it as a business transaction. They
00:15:16.698 --> 00:15:19.566 might be frustrated and reacting emotionally. That doesn't mean
00:15:19.566 --> 00:15:20.014 we should.
00:15:21.584 --> 00:15:24.684 We need to treat the entire situation as.
00:15:25.774 --> 00:15:29.238 Business no ones going to we're not going to judge. We're not
00:15:29.238 --> 00:15:32.422 going to get defensive if clients mad and saying all you
00:15:32.422 --> 00:15:35.774 did all these things wrong and I'm not paying or I'm upset.
00:15:37.824 --> 00:15:40.984 You have to accept that that's their state without it.
00:15:41.664 --> 00:15:46.248 Letting it change your state. All you can do in every moment
00:15:46.248 --> 00:15:50.682 is just be honest about the situation as it stands, and be
00:15:50.682 --> 00:15:51.884 consistent with.
00:15:52.664 --> 00:15:55.674 Sticking to clarity, policies and.
00:15:56.574 --> 00:15:59.892 Being honest about what you can and can't do in a moment and
00:15:59.892 --> 00:16:00.544 always just.
00:16:01.254 --> 00:16:02.044 Being respectful.
00:16:03.864 --> 00:16:05.234 That moving forward.
00:16:09.114 --> 00:16:12.724 Very similarly tied to that, you know positive emotional state.
00:16:13.414 --> 00:16:14.424 Positive language.
00:16:15.524 --> 00:16:16.754 Equals positive mindset.
00:16:17.764 --> 00:16:21.745 If you have a positive mindset, you'll use positive language. If
00:16:21.745 --> 00:16:25.481 you need to evoke a positive mindset, use positive language.
00:16:25.481 --> 00:16:29.156 They they go back and forth. It's like when people tell you
00:16:29.156 --> 00:16:32.708 if you smile, you'll feel better. Same thing if you speak
00:16:32.708 --> 00:16:34.974 about your client in a positive way.
00:16:35.654 --> 00:16:39.072 You will start having more positive mindset about them, so
00:16:39.072 --> 00:16:41.968 this is one of the group exercises that Stephanie
00:16:41.968 --> 00:16:44.864 mentioned. So I'd like everybody to get involved.
00:16:45.844 --> 00:16:50.615 Here and in that effort, I will ask people to jump in and
00:16:50.615 --> 00:16:54.974 participate and what we want to think about here is.
00:16:56.134 --> 00:17:00.464 What are things and pieces of language that we can avoid?
00:17:01.694 --> 00:17:02.974 When we're speaking to clients.
00:17:03.874 --> 00:17:07.624 And how we can reframe them to have a more positive tone.
00:17:08.424 --> 00:17:11.615 So I'm just going to pick at random Amy, would you like to
00:17:11.615 --> 00:17:13.994 give it? Give me a couple of examples here.
00:17:15.104 --> 00:17:18.435 Sure. Yeah. So I liked what you mentioned earlier about the
00:17:18.435 --> 00:17:21.711 language that you use when speaking to clients and kind of
00:17:21.711 --> 00:17:25.264 making it as a, you know, we're in this together and using that
00:17:25.264 --> 00:17:28.484 language as we as in we need to do this as because we are
00:17:28.484 --> 00:17:31.260 working together with this client with any client
00:17:31.260 --> 00:17:34.701 essentially. So that's kind of my where I'm coming from and I
00:17:34.701 --> 00:17:37.977 think that's a really great point to always make sure that
00:17:37.977 --> 00:17:41.419 the language you're using and any client facing communication
00:17:41.419 --> 00:17:44.694 and speaking towards them that you use statements like we.
00:17:45.214 --> 00:17:48.647 Instead of you guys or your team, things like that, it kind
00:17:48.647 --> 00:17:52.422 of shows that you know, we're in this together and it's a it is a
00:17:52.422 --> 00:17:55.454 two team effort in order to get something completed.
00:17:57.874 --> 00:17:58.214 Yeah.
00:17:59.294 --> 00:18:02.224 Absolutely. Thank you. How about you, Trenton?
00:18:05.254 --> 00:18:06.314 Yeah.
00:18:08.014 --> 00:18:09.344 I'm sorry I had something.
00:18:10.054 --> 00:18:10.514 Ah.
00:18:13.174 --> 00:18:17.941 One of the things that I would try to avoid is, uh, kind of, I
00:18:17.941 --> 00:18:22.860 guess goes along the same lines is making it seem like something
00:18:22.860 --> 00:18:24.524 is the client's fault.
00:18:26.634 --> 00:18:29.990 Like if if for example uh we need something from the client
00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:31.724 and they haven't sent it to us.
00:18:32.144 --> 00:18:35.595 Uh, not getting like on a call with them and being like you
00:18:35.595 --> 00:18:38.989 need to send this to us or you know, we're we're gonna get
00:18:38.989 --> 00:18:41.864 behind on this because you won't send this to us.
00:18:43.024 --> 00:18:46.955 Just rephrasing it as something like. Yeah, we're we're starting
00:18:46.955 --> 00:18:50.401 to get a little bit behind. We need this mapping file or
00:18:50.401 --> 00:18:52.094 whatever it is that we need.
00:18:53.874 --> 00:18:57.714 And instead of phrasing it in such a way that, uh, that we're
00:18:57.714 --> 00:18:59.014 kind of blaming them.
00:19:01.664 --> 00:19:04.733 No, it's their project at the end of the day. So yeah, you
00:19:02.294 --> 00:19:02.684 And.
00:19:04.733 --> 00:19:07.801 shouldn't get upset about something like that. Definitely.
00:19:07.801 --> 00:19:11.130 Just make sure they know that. You know, this is if they're, if
00:19:11.130 --> 00:19:14.250 they are laid on getting us something, there's an impact to
00:19:14.250 --> 00:19:17.578 timeline. But other than that, I mean it's it's their projects,
00:19:17.578 --> 00:19:17.734 so.
00:19:19.434 --> 00:19:20.244 I agree.
00:19:20.604 --> 00:19:24.362 Yeah, and and also, you know, just not throwing people under
00:19:24.362 --> 00:19:24.854 the bus.
00:19:26.194 --> 00:19:30.572 So if if a a client is asking something along the lines of,
00:19:30.572 --> 00:19:35.023 why is this not been delivered yet? Why is this not done yet
00:19:35.023 --> 00:19:39.255 not saying things like ohh well my my developer is new so
00:19:39.255 --> 00:19:41.954 they're taking a little while on it.
00:19:43.624 --> 00:19:47.688 You know to taking ownership basically of things that are
00:19:44.004 --> 00:19:44.274 Her.
00:19:47.688 --> 00:19:52.171 getting behind because it's, you know, it's a team effort. It's
00:19:52.171 --> 00:19:55.674 not just not on the developer solely by themself.
00:19:56.824 --> 00:20:00.606 You know, just just trying to stay above board and and taking
00:20:00.606 --> 00:20:03.778 ownership of it instead of trying to pass it off as
00:20:03.778 --> 00:20:07.682 somebody else's fault, because that's always really transparent
00:20:07.682 --> 00:20:11.463 about what we're trying to do there, which is trying to shift
00:20:11.463 --> 00:20:12.744 blame from ourselves.
00:20:14.974 --> 00:20:17.194 That's really fantastic point Trenton. Thank you.
00:20:19.134 --> 00:20:21.800 Ben, you, you spoke up. How about you? What? What are some
00:20:21.800 --> 00:20:24.194 things you would avoid and how you would reframe it?
00:20:24.604 --> 00:20:29.000 And well, here, let me take my hand down. Ohh, so I don't know
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:33.325 if y'all maybe most on this call probably know this, but some
00:20:33.325 --> 00:20:37.302 don't. I haven't really extensive sales background and I
00:20:37.302 --> 00:20:41.697 used to do a lot of these sort of soft skills trainings and we
00:20:41.697 --> 00:20:42.604 did a lot of.
00:20:43.514 --> 00:20:46.394 Role-playing as well to practice and.
00:20:47.634 --> 00:20:50.562 Get more conscious of our word choice that we use. Umm so
00:20:50.562 --> 00:20:53.743 because there's a the way that I would say is there's a lot of
00:20:53.743 --> 00:20:54.954 situations that come up.
00:20:56.084 --> 00:21:01.220 With different clients that uh are the same situation and UM
00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:06.441 and since word choice matters, it's always a good idea to put
00:21:06.441 --> 00:21:11.324 forethought into these more common type of scenarios like
00:21:11.324 --> 00:21:12.334 for example.
00:21:13.684 --> 00:21:16.783 Uh hours may be going over on something and you have to
00:21:16.783 --> 00:21:19.825 present that whatever any difficult situation with the
00:21:19.825 --> 00:21:23.200 client. If you put the sort of the forethought into the word
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:26.077 choices, you can you can actually act that out with
00:21:26.077 --> 00:21:29.341 someone and and and catch those words that will have could
00:21:29.341 --> 00:21:32.605 potentially have a negative impact because you can say the
00:21:32.605 --> 00:21:35.980 same thing with different words and the messages interpreted
00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:39.466 either positive or negative and that I think is to your point,
00:21:39.466 --> 00:21:42.675 Mickey, one of the more most important things you have to
00:21:42.675 --> 00:21:44.334 think about is the perception.
00:21:44.414 --> 00:21:47.608 Of the client with your word choice, like for example saying
00:21:47.608 --> 00:21:47.974 things.
00:21:49.444 --> 00:21:51.234 Like like referring.
00:21:53.974 --> 00:21:57.106 To like a meeting is like a client meeting. Like I I
00:21:57.106 --> 00:22:00.768 wouldn't. Or like a a client check in. I wouldn't. I wouldn't
00:22:00.768 --> 00:22:04.372 use that term client check in or or invoice meeting with the
00:22:04.372 --> 00:22:07.976 client. For example I would I would refer to it as a project
00:22:07.976 --> 00:22:11.402 update or budget review or something like that. So that's
00:22:11.402 --> 00:22:15.243 just one example of word choice that maybe isn't verbally spoken
00:22:15.243 --> 00:22:18.787 but goes into an e-mail because all of that's important for
00:22:18.787 --> 00:22:19.614 communication.
00:22:20.974 --> 00:22:26.808 But the role-playing helps and I know there's definitely words we
00:22:26.808 --> 00:22:28.134 we wanna avoid.
00:22:29.864 --> 00:22:33.312 And I would, I would recommend maybe not in this session. I
00:22:33.312 --> 00:22:36.990 know you guys have this all kind of planned out. And Stephanie,
00:22:36.990 --> 00:22:40.668 you and I have talked about this before, but I think doing some
00:22:40.668 --> 00:22:43.024 role-playing in some of these scenarios.
00:22:43.484 --> 00:22:47.334 Uh is I think we could would help a lot because we can we can
00:22:47.334 --> 00:22:51.059 actually like identify what those words are and then to get
00:22:51.059 --> 00:22:54.971 to my final point, I'll close with this is like basically what
00:22:54.971 --> 00:22:58.820 I did in sales with this was I I developed over the course of
00:22:58.820 --> 00:23:02.483 time a ton of canned responses that were just like spot on
00:23:02.483 --> 00:23:05.898 immediate based on common scenarios that we would deal
00:23:05.898 --> 00:23:09.499 with. And I do that here at clarity too. So I have pretty
00:23:09.499 --> 00:23:12.914 standard responses to different scenarios that I know.
00:23:13.314 --> 00:23:17.318 That I've dealt with in the past and then from experience I've
00:23:17.318 --> 00:23:21.448 learned how to phrase things in a way that the client definitely
00:23:21.448 --> 00:23:25.388 interprets my intent as positive because I, I mean, I've I've
00:23:25.388 --> 00:23:29.328 been on the other side of that too, where I've I've misstated
00:23:29.328 --> 00:23:33.141 something, and it created an escalation for a moment that I
00:23:33.141 --> 00:23:37.335 had to quell because there was a misunderstanding. So anyway, the
00:23:37.335 --> 00:23:40.576 canned response thing like if you that's where the
00:23:40.576 --> 00:23:43.054 role-playing comes in, you'll sort of.
00:23:43.274 --> 00:23:47.212 You'll develop a bunch of just sort of standard responses and
00:23:47.212 --> 00:23:51.340 and like I used to tell my sales guys don't like try to reinvent
00:23:51.340 --> 00:23:55.277 the wheel and constantly do it differently. If you find a way
00:23:55.277 --> 00:23:59.405 to phrase something that works, use it. Don't. Don't keep trying
00:23:59.405 --> 00:24:03.279 to refine it. I mean, if you find if you find something that
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.153 you state that that gets the reaction you want almost 98% of
00:24:07.153 --> 00:24:07.724 the time.
00:24:08.244 --> 00:24:12.905 And then then use use that every time, uh, that scenario comes up
00:24:12.905 --> 00:24:17.071 consistency around that, not just in sales but in our role
00:24:17.071 --> 00:24:21.379 can give you more consistent results with your outcomes with
00:24:21.379 --> 00:24:24.274 clients. So and that's all. Thanks guys.
00:24:25.184 --> 00:24:27.911 Thank you, Ben. I appreciate that. Clint, did you wanna jump
00:24:27.911 --> 00:24:30.414 in and share anything? I know you have a lot of wisdom.
00:24:31.284 --> 00:24:34.607 Yeah, generally, I mean it's a it's the same line of reasoning,
00:24:34.607 --> 00:24:34.814 but.
00:24:35.454 --> 00:24:37.094 The more you can keep it collaborative.
00:24:38.464 --> 00:24:42.649 Stephanie. And then we could use that care call earlier where you
00:24:42.649 --> 00:24:46.706 deal with the client who as much as they're saying one thing or
00:24:46.706 --> 00:24:50.637 saying the multiple things, a lot of the, the undercurrent of
00:24:50.637 --> 00:24:54.504 meeting is blame and they're they're trying to pass blame or
00:24:54.504 --> 00:24:58.118 they're trying to understand what the fault is. And it's
00:24:58.118 --> 00:25:02.112 really hard for them not to just want to pass it back on to us
00:25:02.112 --> 00:25:05.853 staying impartial, but also staying kind of rigid with how
00:25:05.853 --> 00:25:07.374 you present information.
00:25:08.054 --> 00:25:11.828 Can be useful and then the follow up to that is making it
00:25:11.828 --> 00:25:15.796 collaborative. Alright, here's what we're gonna do next. And
00:25:15.796 --> 00:25:19.635 the we are is not a it's not clarity. It's making it clear
00:25:19.635 --> 00:25:23.799 that that includes the client or that includes all the involved
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:27.832 parties. The second it becomes one group doing something that
00:25:27.832 --> 00:25:30.174 becomes a very quick slope towards.
00:25:31.264 --> 00:25:34.301 You know the client blaming everything on you or it becoming
00:25:34.301 --> 00:25:35.894 just confrontational in general.
00:25:37.044 --> 00:25:40.191 And keeping a level head is always the goal, but that
00:25:40.191 --> 00:25:43.688 becomes more and more difficult if it if that communication
00:25:43.688 --> 00:25:47.417 breaks down. And the best way to keep that is keeping this kind
00:25:47.417 --> 00:25:48.874 of collaboration mindset.
00:25:51.384 --> 00:25:54.940 Absolutely. Thank you, Clint. That's a really good point.
00:25:54.940 --> 00:25:58.680 Stephanie. Eric. Daniel. Anybody else wanna chime in here on
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:02.236 things that they would like to see us avoiding and how to
00:26:02.236 --> 00:26:03.094 reframe those?
00:26:03.874 --> 00:26:09.702 I wanna kind of elaborate on kind of Amy and Trenton's thing
00:26:09.702 --> 00:26:11.804 earlier about how you.
00:26:14.404 --> 00:26:17.956 Show or represent, you know, clarity, but also the
00:26:17.956 --> 00:26:22.551 relationship between clarity and the client. Because I think what
00:26:22.551 --> 00:26:26.729 Amy said and what Trenton said, they were really good about
00:26:26.729 --> 00:26:27.634 using we and.
00:26:28.534 --> 00:26:32.253 You know, trying to limit the eye or I did this or I'm going
00:26:32.253 --> 00:26:36.154 to go do this and obviously if it's your, you're actually going
00:26:36.154 --> 00:26:39.933 to get off the call and go do that, that's fine. But using we
00:26:39.933 --> 00:26:43.286 in terms of either taking responsibility for things or
00:26:43.286 --> 00:26:46.394 things that we were able to accomplish as a group.
00:26:47.494 --> 00:26:50.124 We'll we'll if you use it in. If you use it for.
00:26:51.684 --> 00:26:55.725 You know things that we've done well as a group. It also leaves
00:26:55.725 --> 00:26:59.450 you an out for kind of taking responsibility at for things
00:26:59.450 --> 00:27:03.490 that didn't go well too, right? So if you can just if you pause
00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:07.404 it a Wii instead of I and a lot of scenarios it kind of gives
00:27:07.404 --> 00:27:11.445 more of a semblance of the team aspect as well as looking at it
00:27:11.445 --> 00:27:15.296 from their perspective too. So if you can build that rapport
00:27:15.296 --> 00:27:19.273 with them, that they're part of this process too. And so if we
00:27:19.273 --> 00:27:20.914 did something on our side.
00:27:20.994 --> 00:27:23.581 That we need to take responsibility for it, but that
00:27:23.581 --> 00:27:26.119 then kind of sets a precedent that they should take
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:29.145 responsibility for things on their side. And obviously you're
00:27:29.145 --> 00:27:32.024 gonna have plenty of clients that they don't care. They're
00:27:32.024 --> 00:27:35.148 just gonna tell you that you're doing it wrong or whatever. But
00:27:35.148 --> 00:27:38.223 but just having that extra, that extra layer of team, the team
00:27:38.223 --> 00:27:39.784 aspect really can go a long way.
00:27:42.714 --> 00:27:43.094 Absolute.
00:27:43.524 --> 00:27:44.164 Thank you.
00:27:48.134 --> 00:27:51.822 Alright, going once, going twice. Any other participants on
00:27:51.822 --> 00:27:53.604 this topic before we move on?
00:27:55.774 --> 00:27:56.474 All right.
00:27:57.784 --> 00:28:02.334 So on to the next pillar, which is how to manage change. So it's
00:28:02.334 --> 00:28:06.954 gonna be another group exercise. We're all gonna jump in and talk
00:28:06.954 --> 00:28:09.544 about scope creep and scope changes.
00:28:11.554 --> 00:28:15.706 How do we recognize that this is happening and bring it up to the
00:28:15.706 --> 00:28:18.284 client so that they can understand that?
00:28:19.344 --> 00:28:21.503 And I'm going to pick on you, Daniel, because you haven't
00:28:21.503 --> 00:28:22.024 joined in yet.
00:28:30.854 --> 00:28:31.524 You won't.
00:28:31.154 --> 00:28:33.274 Oh, Daniel, you're muted.
00:28:33.954 --> 00:28:36.289 I am so sorry. What was the one more time? What was the
00:28:36.289 --> 00:28:36.664 question?
00:28:37.454 --> 00:28:41.347 How do we recognize scope creep and bring it up to the client so
00:28:41.347 --> 00:28:43.024 that they can understand it?
00:28:44.234 --> 00:28:47.891 Excellent. Yeah. So we have in our FSD as a pretty
00:28:47.891 --> 00:28:51.979 straightforward line of what we're doing on the project,
00:28:51.979 --> 00:28:56.424 right, almost across the board, we know that is the extent of
00:28:56.424 --> 00:29:00.942 it. So if it's not in the FSD, we need to make sure that we're
00:29:00.942 --> 00:29:04.814 bringing that information back to the client's almost
00:29:04.814 --> 00:29:05.674 immediately.
00:29:07.274 --> 00:29:08.504 So how do you judge?
00:29:09.324 --> 00:29:12.716 And I I'm going to ask you to be patient with me here. Daniel.
00:29:11.444 --> 00:29:11.744 Umm.
00:29:12.714 --> 00:29:13.504 That's OK.
00:29:12.716 --> 00:29:16.000 I'm gonna pick on you a bit. How do you know what is a small
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:18.584 enough change? What is a small enough piece of?
00:29:19.494 --> 00:29:23.436 Alteration to a feature that it needs to be called out as scope
00:29:23.436 --> 00:29:24.914 creep as a scope change.
00:29:27.974 --> 00:29:31.967 Basically just that anything that's not in the FSD, if it's
00:29:31.967 --> 00:29:33.764 even if it's a small thing.
00:29:32.284 --> 00:29:33.154 OK so.
00:29:34.424 --> 00:29:38.353 The FSD says that we're going to Umm, I'm. I'm just gonna skip
00:29:38.353 --> 00:29:42.095 all here. We're gonna send. We're gonna create a button and
00:29:40.094 --> 00:29:40.314 Yeah.
00:29:42.095 --> 00:29:45.775 it just says it's a button that's gonna take the client to
00:29:45.775 --> 00:29:46.024 the.
00:29:46.774 --> 00:29:47.054 Mm-hmm.
00:29:47.004 --> 00:29:49.604 And our standard out of box is just add to cart.
00:29:51.394 --> 00:29:53.334 And the clients like can I say go to cart.
00:29:54.784 --> 00:29:58.638 That's pretty small change. Is that worth calling out as this
00:29:58.638 --> 00:29:59.694 is an in the FSD.
00:30:00.094 --> 00:30:01.004 Yes, of course.
00:30:01.614 --> 00:30:02.044 OK.
00:30:03.084 --> 00:30:06.599 So I did everybody hear that cause it's not that is not easy
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:06.944 to do.
00:30:09.334 --> 00:30:09.774 Heard.
00:30:12.464 --> 00:30:12.694 Uh.
00:30:12.754 --> 00:30:13.154 And you.
00:30:12.984 --> 00:30:13.414 Heard.
00:30:14.214 --> 00:30:14.574 OK.
00:30:15.564 --> 00:30:16.014 Oops.
00:30:16.834 --> 00:30:18.014 Ohh wait who?
00:30:17.654 --> 00:30:20.890 Well, I there's a canned response to this too. Like if
00:30:19.214 --> 00:30:19.604 Please.
00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:22.654 you like literally if someone.
00:30:23.294 --> 00:30:26.516 If they do mention something that say, uh, like a change,
00:30:26.516 --> 00:30:29.848 request, a change to scope like I always say the same thing
00:30:29.848 --> 00:30:33.014 every time, it's almost an immediate response. Is that a
00:30:33.014 --> 00:30:36.347 nice to have or is that a must have? And then based on that
00:30:36.347 --> 00:30:39.735 answer, you know I'll go down those two different paths, but
00:30:39.735 --> 00:30:40.734 that's all. Sorry.
00:30:41.454 --> 00:30:45.591 No, that's that's fantastic, Ben. That's a great way to
00:30:45.591 --> 00:30:50.318 manage it because you are, it's saying without saying that this
00:30:50.318 --> 00:30:52.164 is a change and you know.
00:30:51.214 --> 00:30:52.584 And it's going to cost money.
00:30:52.894 --> 00:30:56.414 Exactly, exactly that is great.
00:30:53.824 --> 00:30:54.344 Yes.
00:30:55.454 --> 00:30:58.752 And half the time when you word it that way, they will share.
00:30:58.752 --> 00:31:01.996 That's when they will really think ohh yeah, OK, do I really
00:31:01.996 --> 00:31:05.506 want to, you know, and then then that's when it gets down to must
00:31:05.506 --> 00:31:08.324 have a nice to have, but that's all I wanted to say.
00:31:09.084 --> 00:31:12.793 Very good point. Did anyone else want to contribute before I go
00:31:12.793 --> 00:31:14.184 to picking on Stephanie?
00:31:18.554 --> 00:31:19.094 OK.
00:31:19.864 --> 00:31:23.461 All right, Stephanie, how do you recognize scope creep in your
00:31:23.461 --> 00:31:23.974 projects?
00:31:25.654 --> 00:31:28.884 Depends on what phase of the project we are in.
00:31:29.844 --> 00:31:30.594 So.
00:31:31.534 --> 00:31:35.730 We're in the beginning phases and we are building to the FSD
00:31:35.730 --> 00:31:39.995 and still managing through the backlog. Any request to change
00:31:39.995 --> 00:31:44.191 is easy enough to find. It's something that you know this is
00:31:44.191 --> 00:31:48.593 the backlog, this is the ticket. It's been architected, this is
00:31:48.593 --> 00:31:53.064 what we're working with. And so it's relatively straightforward.
00:31:54.024 --> 00:31:56.814 As we're building out demos for feature completion.
00:31:58.174 --> 00:32:02.578 Where things can get to be a little bit of a sticky wicket
00:32:02.578 --> 00:32:07.205 are in UAT and that is the time where the client is basically
00:32:07.205 --> 00:32:11.982 going through testing all of the features that we've built out,
00:32:11.982 --> 00:32:16.833 walking through their happy path and calling out things that are
00:32:16.833 --> 00:32:18.624 slightly different from.
00:32:19.504 --> 00:32:23.548 They're originally architected workflow. Maybe the project has
00:32:23.548 --> 00:32:27.591 languished and it's been about six months and they've had some
00:32:27.591 --> 00:32:31.634 business changes or something along those lines. And we're not
00:32:31.634 --> 00:32:32.404 aware of it.
00:32:34.314 --> 00:32:37.809 This is one of the more challenging times to call out
00:32:37.809 --> 00:32:41.627 scope creep because they're going to come back with, well,
00:32:41.627 --> 00:32:45.704 this is UAT. It's supposed to be working at this point. Why is
00:32:45.704 --> 00:32:46.674 this happening?
00:32:48.174 --> 00:32:52.322 And that's really the time where we need to present ourselves in
00:32:52.322 --> 00:32:56.405 the best possible light with the documentation that we have and
00:32:56.405 --> 00:33:00.616 actually walk through that again with the client of. This is what
00:33:00.616 --> 00:33:04.126 we tested. This is the acceptance criteria we went off
00:33:04.126 --> 00:33:08.209 of. This is how we tested this particular feature to deliver to
00:33:08.209 --> 00:33:08.464 you.
00:33:09.664 --> 00:33:13.956 You're saying now that this button color that we all agreed
00:33:13.956 --> 00:33:18.391 on signed off in the FSD as out of Box Green was fine and now
00:33:18.391 --> 00:33:20.894 you want this to be Canary yellow?
00:33:22.414 --> 00:33:26.189 It seems to me like perhaps there might have been a workflow
00:33:26.189 --> 00:33:29.902 change that happened, or there might have been a new design
00:33:29.902 --> 00:33:33.738 firm that came in to work with you guys and this maybe didn't
00:33:33.738 --> 00:33:37.327 get documented in our features properly. Let's talk about
00:33:37.327 --> 00:33:41.350 whether or not this is a need to have. If this is something that
00:33:41.350 --> 00:33:45.248 we can live with for now that it may not be pixel perfect, but
00:33:45.248 --> 00:33:49.023 maybe we can get you launched making money on this thing and
00:33:49.023 --> 00:33:52.364 then we can go through and iterate for pixel perfect.
00:33:52.644 --> 00:33:56.264 Or is this something that just really isn't a big deal to you
00:33:56.264 --> 00:33:59.825 at all, because overall our estimation is that this is gonna
00:33:59.825 --> 00:34:03.036 take X amount of hours to adjust. So I wanna make sure
00:34:03.036 --> 00:34:05.254 that you have all of the information.
00:34:08.164 --> 00:34:12.392 Fantastic. Thank you. Stephanie. That was wonderful. Does anyone
00:34:12.392 --> 00:34:16.684 else have any insights they want to share on scope creep in scope
00:34:16.684 --> 00:34:17.204 changes?
00:34:20.364 --> 00:34:23.678 I have one thing, but it's kind of as I'm still learning all
00:34:23.678 --> 00:34:24.384 this kind of.
00:34:25.104 --> 00:34:28.247 These intricacies and whatnot, but something that I've noticed,
00:34:28.247 --> 00:34:31.243 like if something came in on Basecamp and it seems some like
00:34:31.243 --> 00:34:34.337 a suit, just seems like a scope change or scope creep. If I go
00:34:34.337 --> 00:34:37.382 check with the developer and say hey, what do you think about
00:34:37.382 --> 00:34:40.230 this? And they're like, oh, that's definitely a change or
00:34:40.230 --> 00:34:42.784 that's not what's in the FSD, that kind of gives me
00:34:42.784 --> 00:34:45.780 confirmation that it's outside of scope or essentially scope
00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:46.074 creep.
00:34:46.824 --> 00:34:49.969 So so far that's kind of what I've learned from that of like
00:34:49.969 --> 00:34:52.134 check in with the developer and ask them.
00:34:54.764 --> 00:34:58.110 Absolutely. And that's that's a very good point, Amy, that we
00:34:58.110 --> 00:35:01.294 have a team here. There are a lot of people on the clarity
00:35:01.294 --> 00:35:04.801 team that are involved in taking a project from the initial time
00:35:04.801 --> 00:35:08.093 we meet with a client all the way through to launching their
00:35:08.093 --> 00:35:11.114 site, you have a business analyst who is part of making
00:35:11.114 --> 00:35:14.406 that FSD who may be able to share some more granular data on
00:35:14.406 --> 00:35:17.643 what they remember from their conversations with the client
00:35:17.643 --> 00:35:19.154 when it was being developed.
00:35:19.844 --> 00:35:23.553 You have developers who've been working on the project, their
00:35:23.553 --> 00:35:27.262 resource for their understanding of how the site is currently
00:35:27.262 --> 00:35:30.851 functioning, and you have your FSD. You can refer to all of
00:35:30.851 --> 00:35:34.261 those as resources to figure out this thing that's being
00:35:34.261 --> 00:35:38.090 mentioned. Now is that, was that always there and I just didn't
00:35:38.090 --> 00:35:41.858 realize it or is this new? Is this a change? Is this new scope
00:35:41.858 --> 00:35:45.747 and you should use all of those resources. Absolutely. And we're
00:35:45.747 --> 00:35:49.336 gonna have more resources soon in terms of the architecture
00:35:49.336 --> 00:35:49.814 mapping.
00:35:49.924 --> 00:35:53.494 That we're gonna be doing. So there's lots available to you.
00:35:54.774 --> 00:35:58.805 So thank you everybody on that one. And we will move on to
00:35:58.805 --> 00:36:01.264 talking about exceeded estimations.
00:36:02.494 --> 00:36:05.779 So what I wanna talk about here is how can we frame the
00:36:05.779 --> 00:36:08.770 situation when something has exceeded our original
00:36:08.770 --> 00:36:12.348 estimations to help the client best understand. I know we've
00:36:12.348 --> 00:36:15.691 all used the can phrase of unexpected complexities. Does
00:36:15.691 --> 00:36:19.211 that phrase always get the job done? Does it work? Is there
00:36:19.211 --> 00:36:23.023 anything else we can contribute to the conversation when talking
00:36:23.023 --> 00:36:26.308 about something exceeding estimations that can help the
00:36:26.308 --> 00:36:29.064 client understand the situation on the ground?
00:36:30.174 --> 00:36:31.454 Then I'm going to pick on you.
00:36:32.144 --> 00:36:32.824 What do you think?
00:36:43.274 --> 00:36:44.074 Were anyone else?
00:36:45.054 --> 00:36:48.395 And maybe indisposed the moment. Who else wants to contribute
00:36:47.654 --> 00:36:52.229 Ohh no sorry, I was I was trying to unlock so the question is how
00:36:48.395 --> 00:36:49.634 their thoughts, though?
00:36:52.229 --> 00:36:56.458 do we recognize this or scope creep or what? Sorry repeat it
00:36:56.174 --> 00:36:59.329 No, we're talking about we're talking about exceeded
00:36:56.458 --> 00:36:56.804 so I.
00:36:59.329 --> 00:37:02.960 estimations. Now how can we frame the situation when an item
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:06.709 has exceeded estimations so that the client can understand the
00:37:06.709 --> 00:37:07.304 situation.
00:37:10.064 --> 00:37:13.852 Well, I think first of all, uh, don't let it go. You know,
00:37:13.852 --> 00:37:17.704 beyond like, pause and and that's the most important thing,
00:37:17.704 --> 00:37:21.684 I think with this situation, I've learned that client. I mean
00:37:21.684 --> 00:37:25.407 obviously most people hate surprises, but especially when
00:37:25.407 --> 00:37:29.131 it has to do with budgetary things like it's not yours or
00:37:29.131 --> 00:37:33.239 claritys, you know, decision to make. So to avoid conflict with
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:35.614 the client, the best thing to do is.
00:37:37.014 --> 00:37:40.877 Pause and bring it up immediately as uh, like, hey
00:37:40.877 --> 00:37:44.891 look, we as pawn further evaluation of this feature,
00:37:44.891 --> 00:37:49.360 we've determined that there's more complexity that was not
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:54.283 initially taken into account in the initial estimates. Therefore
00:37:54.283 --> 00:37:59.055 we wanted to pause and sort of reevaluate this with you. We've
00:37:59.055 --> 00:38:03.978 already discussed it internally as a team and it appears that to
00:38:03.978 --> 00:38:05.644 complete this project.
00:38:05.724 --> 00:38:09.834 We're we're looking at somewhere around 5 to 10 additional hours.
00:38:10.274 --> 00:38:13.884 Umm. And and then you kind of have to.
00:38:15.184 --> 00:38:19.224 React based on their reaction there, but in in most cases.
00:38:19.304 --> 00:38:19.674 Uh.
00:38:20.994 --> 00:38:24.572 You know, as long as it doesn't come as a surprise and you're
00:38:24.572 --> 00:38:27.745 allowing them to make the decision to continue, you've
00:38:27.745 --> 00:38:31.322 you've been, you know, adamant, letting them know, hey, we've
00:38:31.322 --> 00:38:34.957 paused on this because we know it's going to take a little bit
00:38:34.957 --> 00:38:38.592 more time and we wanna. We wanna let you decide and then maybe
00:38:38.592 --> 00:38:41.881 maybe you get into the weeds a little bit around why the
00:38:41.881 --> 00:38:45.400 complexities more and and in some cases not all, but in some
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:49.093 cases the client may have some something to contribute there as
00:38:49.093 --> 00:38:50.304 maybe an idea of how.
00:38:50.744 --> 00:38:52.374 How we could continue?
00:38:53.924 --> 00:38:57.338 Or maybe keep the feature the way it is without the additional
00:38:57.338 --> 00:39:00.480 whatever they need. I mean, there's all kinds of outcomes
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:03.947 based on the, you know, whatever you're working on. But but the
00:39:03.947 --> 00:39:07.252 whole idea, in my mind is don't, don't let it get to a point
00:39:07.252 --> 00:39:10.449 where you're surprising the customer with a bill that they
00:39:10.449 --> 00:39:13.808 didn't approve because we went negative on something. I think
00:39:13.808 --> 00:39:17.004 that in my mind is the bottom line and how to handle that.
00:39:17.734 --> 00:39:20.801 That's a great point and I really like what she said about
00:39:20.801 --> 00:39:23.919 agency. We're going to get to that a little bit more later.
00:39:23.919 --> 00:39:27.141 Eric. I'm going to pick on you now because you're big part of
00:39:27.141 --> 00:39:28.284 how we do estimations.
00:39:29.204 --> 00:39:31.814 What do you think about when something has gone over?
00:39:33.734 --> 00:39:36.034 Oh, that's a lot. That's a big can of worms.
00:39:36.174 --> 00:39:39.764 A but ultimately.
00:39:42.384 --> 00:39:46.373 When we when we give estimates, they and and and I apologize I I
00:39:46.373 --> 00:39:50.300 was sending some messages on the back end. So I may repeat what
00:39:49.234 --> 00:39:49.814 What? What's?
00:39:50.300 --> 00:39:51.404 Ben said but when?
00:39:50.824 --> 00:39:53.804 But we also have agreed example just from this week, right?
00:39:54.464 --> 00:39:55.524 Yeah, yeah.
00:39:58.194 --> 00:40:00.620 And I'll let I'll get you get in there. So, yeah. Yeah, let me
00:39:59.394 --> 00:40:02.245 I'll jump on that one just cause it's it's so pertinent right
00:40:00.620 --> 00:40:02.544 get, let me get this point out real quick. Sorry.
00:40:01.034 --> 00:40:02.824 Yeah, alright.
00:40:02.245 --> 00:40:02.704 now, yeah.
00:40:03.814 --> 00:40:07.462 When when we give estimates, they are just that right, they
00:40:07.462 --> 00:40:10.988 are estimates. We're not guaranteeing that when we get in
00:40:10.988 --> 00:40:13.724 there and find that ohh we we actually have.
00:40:13.784 --> 00:40:17.513 Still have two more files that need to be updated with logic
00:40:17.513 --> 00:40:21.119 and oh actually now that we've that we're getting into it.
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:24.847 That's also going to potentially affect checkout because you
00:40:24.847 --> 00:40:28.331 know, let's maybe it's an account registration thing and
00:40:28.331 --> 00:40:31.815 Daniel get into the specifics here, but they're are just
00:40:31.815 --> 00:40:35.544 estimates and we are humans and we miss some of those things
00:40:35.544 --> 00:40:39.394 where yeah, we actually did an architect for this contingency.
00:40:39.454 --> 00:40:43.431 Contingency problem that affects somewhere down the line in the
00:40:43.431 --> 00:40:47.160 workflow and so that's kind of the big thing for me is that
00:40:47.160 --> 00:40:50.764 they are just estimates and where we do exceeds sometimes
00:40:50.764 --> 00:40:54.182 it's just that somebody just took a little longer, but
00:40:54.182 --> 00:40:57.724 sometimes it's just 100%. I mean it's valid even in that
00:40:57.724 --> 00:41:01.577 scenario, but it's just valid that we miss things and so they
00:41:01.577 --> 00:41:05.492 exceed set gonna have to come in to do a quick fix. But all it
00:41:05.492 --> 00:41:07.604 Daniel go and then I'll probably.
00:41:07.934 --> 00:41:12.364 A have more after he goes after he gives this example.
00:41:11.904 --> 00:41:15.209 Before, before Daniel starts, I will just point out that This is
00:41:15.209 --> 00:41:18.309 why it's a great thing to talk about the cone of uncertainty
00:41:18.309 --> 00:41:20.444 from the beginning. Daniel, take it away.
00:41:21.204 --> 00:41:24.195 Yeah, so this week and I want mentioned the developer because
00:41:24.195 --> 00:41:27.330 it's not really fruitful, but we had a developer who's been here
00:41:27.330 --> 00:41:29.934 for a while, who's, you know, pretty solid developer.
00:41:31.564 --> 00:41:35.355 Go off and essentially work four hours on a task that was only
00:41:35.355 --> 00:41:39.206 meant to be a belief 2 hours and none of the work that they did
00:41:39.206 --> 00:41:42.515 was valid because they weren't paying attention to the
00:41:42.515 --> 00:41:45.644 architecture of it and it was just kind of a simple
00:41:45.644 --> 00:41:49.434 nomenclature thing. They were thinking of 1 schema, but it was
00:41:49.434 --> 00:41:53.044 a different scheme altogether and they just went off on it.
00:41:53.874 --> 00:41:57.474 And truly, if we didn't have the architecture documents and we
00:41:57.474 --> 00:42:00.960 didn't have that oversight of the entire project from Eric's
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:03.074 side, we would never have caught it.
00:42:04.474 --> 00:42:07.144 Not today, not in. You know, not in a million years they would
00:42:07.144 --> 00:42:09.771 have just kind of been in the code base and would have caught
00:42:09.771 --> 00:42:12.397 it until, you know, two or three months down the line. But we
00:42:12.397 --> 00:42:13.414 were able to catch this.
00:42:14.114 --> 00:42:16.922 You know, literally the day after the ticket was made
00:42:16.922 --> 00:42:20.094 because I was doing my normal ticket updates, we caught this
00:42:20.094 --> 00:42:23.317 and were able to quickly shunt it off into a different place.
00:42:23.317 --> 00:42:26.749 So this is something where those exceeds destinations. I think. I
00:42:26.749 --> 00:42:29.921 don't want to give any kind of percentage to it, but I would
00:42:29.921 --> 00:42:33.144 say a fair amount of them can come from someone just going in
00:42:33.144 --> 00:42:34.184 the wrong direction.
00:42:35.084 --> 00:42:37.861 And we're constantly working to fix that up, but it's always
00:42:37.861 --> 00:42:40.820 going to be an issue whether we have the best documentation with
00:42:40.820 --> 00:42:41.594 great developers.
00:42:43.044 --> 00:42:48.002 And every other permutation down the line, people are just prone
00:42:48.002 --> 00:42:50.214 to making mistakes, you know.
00:42:51.374 --> 00:42:54.834 So this is a big thing. What? No. Go on.
00:42:51.384 --> 00:42:52.784 And that that calls.
00:42:53.654 --> 00:42:54.094 Go ahead.
00:42:55.014 --> 00:42:58.311 Yeah, I was gonna say that calls to mind advice you gave me just
00:42:58.311 --> 00:43:01.405 this week alone to, you know, ask the questions to make sure
00:43:01.405 --> 00:43:04.651 that everybody's understanding things the same way throughout a
00:43:03.084 --> 00:43:03.324 OK.
00:43:04.651 --> 00:43:06.984 group when you're working together in a team.
00:43:07.484 --> 00:43:08.134 Mm-hmm.
00:43:08.064 --> 00:43:11.579 Yeah. And that's the biggest thing too, right? Like, like,
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:15.153 we're not expecting you all to know the the technical, like
00:43:15.153 --> 00:43:18.727 every aspect technically of of the of the project. But when
00:43:18.727 --> 00:43:22.122 you're looking at tickets, one way to prevent exceeds or
00:43:22.122 --> 00:43:25.399 misunderstanding is do you understand basically what's
00:43:25.399 --> 00:43:29.330 happening right? Like if you may not know if it specifically says
00:43:29.330 --> 00:43:32.904 go modify this file to do XYZ, but if you're looking at the
00:43:32.904 --> 00:43:34.274 ticket and you're like.
00:43:35.114 --> 00:43:38.621 I just I would have no idea where to go. I mean, there's
00:43:38.621 --> 00:43:42.189 like, it's not you shouldn't. You shouldn't. Just in your
00:43:42.189 --> 00:43:46.126 mind. Put it off as well. It's probably too technical for me to
00:43:46.126 --> 00:43:49.632 understand. If you don't understand it, ask the question
00:43:47.064 --> 00:43:47.634 Umm.
00:43:49.632 --> 00:43:50.124 because.
00:43:49.994 --> 00:43:50.724 Hmm.
00:43:50.934 --> 00:43:54.106 You know, it's not guaranteed that that the developer is
00:43:54.106 --> 00:43:57.444 understanding the end. The end result either, especially so
00:43:57.444 --> 00:44:00.448 because you have, you should have the majority of the
00:44:00.448 --> 00:44:04.064 knowledge of the project right? So that's where you add a lot of
00:44:04.064 --> 00:44:07.124 value. And so if you look at a ticket and you're like.
00:44:08.604 --> 00:44:11.842 And there just doesn't seem like there's enough information here
00:44:11.842 --> 00:44:13.934 for anybody to work on ask the questions.
00:44:13.604 --> 00:44:14.644 There probably isn't.
00:44:14.874 --> 00:44:15.884 This probably is not.
00:44:15.364 --> 00:44:15.644 Umm.
00:44:16.614 --> 00:44:19.014 And and that's a yeah, go ahead.
00:44:16.884 --> 00:44:17.874 And the.
00:44:19.114 --> 00:44:22.222 The other side to that is, is we're all users of websites,
00:44:22.222 --> 00:44:25.593 right? So we understand how to move through the happy path of a
00:44:23.984 --> 00:44:24.384 Love it.
00:44:25.593 --> 00:44:28.912 website. If you can't look at a feature and understand how you
00:44:25.984 --> 00:44:26.304 Yep.
00:44:28.912 --> 00:44:32.336 as a user would use it, there's a problem. Raise your hand, call
00:44:31.694 --> 00:44:31.984 Umm.
00:44:32.336 --> 00:44:32.704 it out.
00:44:33.044 --> 00:44:33.464 Mm-hmm.
00:44:34.424 --> 00:44:38.441 And that's a huge one, right? Like, how often have you
00:44:34.554 --> 00:44:35.054 Beautiful.
00:44:35.864 --> 00:44:37.914 That one, the biggest one right like.
00:44:38.441 --> 00:44:39.974 especially, you know?
00:44:42.024 --> 00:44:45.356 I don't know if I noticed that as much before I started this
00:44:45.356 --> 00:44:45.574 job.
00:44:46.254 --> 00:44:49.344 But certainly after working here for a few years.
00:44:50.504 --> 00:44:54.540 You know when you go to a website that has a bad UI or a
00:44:54.540 --> 00:44:58.789 bad workflow, or like I gotta it's so bad now and it's like
00:44:55.064 --> 00:44:56.064 Ah, it's awful.
00:44:58.789 --> 00:45:03.249 you go to, you know, like what? I got a another little cycling
00:44:58.804 --> 00:44:59.544 I know.
00:45:03.249 --> 00:45:07.568 hat made recently and they're little designer was down and I
00:45:07.568 --> 00:45:11.958 was like ohh like all good thing was like this sucks for them
00:45:11.958 --> 00:45:16.277 they are not having a good time right now because I make all
00:45:16.277 --> 00:45:19.534 these by like by essentially e-mail etcetera.
00:45:19.614 --> 00:45:20.204 Address.
00:45:20.844 --> 00:45:25.114 Umm, so yeah, just what Mickey said. Like you guys know
00:45:25.114 --> 00:45:28.774 websites, you know where it's 2033 or whatever.
00:45:29.934 --> 00:45:33.600 We've all used them. We know how they work, so if you can't
00:45:33.600 --> 00:45:36.654 figure it out, just try to abstract it, you know.
00:45:40.314 --> 00:45:43.498 Absolutely. Well, thank you everybody. That was great. We're
00:45:43.498 --> 00:45:44.854 gonna keep moving forward.
00:45:46.474 --> 00:45:48.864 All right. And now we're going to talk about. Ohh.
00:45:47.334 --> 00:45:49.954 One thing before we move on, sorry.
00:45:49.994 --> 00:45:51.464 Yes, please.
00:45:51.654 --> 00:45:56.131 I want everybody to think about a game that we all played as
00:45:56.131 --> 00:46:00.534 little ones. Does everybody remember the game of telephone?
00:46:02.394 --> 00:46:02.984 Yes.
00:46:03.194 --> 00:46:08.330 And how quickly information can shift when transferred from one
00:46:04.054 --> 00:46:04.484 Yes.
00:46:08.330 --> 00:46:09.934 person to the other?
00:46:11.154 --> 00:46:13.404 Now put that on the scale of what we do.
00:46:14.134 --> 00:46:16.224 And think about how.
00:46:17.184 --> 00:46:21.677 Much detail goes into what we do. It's incumbent on us as the
00:46:21.677 --> 00:46:26.024 project managers to be the stopgap in all things telephone.
00:46:26.834 --> 00:46:28.704 We are the gatekeepers.
00:46:30.164 --> 00:46:31.204 That's it. Carry on.
00:46:31.734 --> 00:46:35.334 Sorry, sorry. Extract floating things here.
00:46:31.934 --> 00:46:32.754 Yeah, absolutely.
00:46:36.604 --> 00:46:39.706 This issue that we're talking about earlier with this errant
00:46:39.706 --> 00:46:42.654 ticket, this all came out of like weird small side chats.
00:46:43.894 --> 00:46:47.326 And the developer did not want to move it to the main chat
00:46:47.326 --> 00:46:50.816 because they were the main project. Chat on it because they
00:46:50.816 --> 00:46:52.444 were thinking like ohh well.
00:46:53.024 --> 00:46:55.949 Uh, and won't get answers in there. I'm like, no. So that's
00:46:55.949 --> 00:46:58.874 another thing with that guys, you should have project chats
00:46:58.874 --> 00:47:01.897 for all of your projects. You know, we're not forcing them to
00:47:01.897 --> 00:47:04.822 go into the teams channels anymore. If we used to 100 years
00:47:04.822 --> 00:47:06.674 ago cuz we realized that wasn't real.
00:47:07.584 --> 00:47:10.749 Use those project chats, and if you're talking about any
00:47:10.749 --> 00:47:12.414 project, keep it in that chat.
00:47:13.804 --> 00:47:17.739 Yeah, side chats need to side side chats need to be few and
00:47:13.984 --> 00:47:14.974 Reduce the telephone.
00:47:17.739 --> 00:47:21.870 far between. If you're talking about, yeah, I, I'll. I'm gonna
00:47:21.870 --> 00:47:25.214 reiterate that because how how important it is for
00:47:25.214 --> 00:47:29.214 documentation and making sure that all the information is in
00:47:29.214 --> 00:47:33.017 the same thread. If you are talking about a client, which
00:47:33.017 --> 00:47:36.886 means that you're going to bill for that client build that
00:47:36.886 --> 00:47:41.083 client for the time that you're being used to manage this, have
00:47:41.083 --> 00:47:43.574 it in the designated client chat and.
00:47:43.704 --> 00:47:47.731 Daniel is making those on project on the as projects come
00:47:47.731 --> 00:47:52.036 in, so there's going to be some legacy ones that don't exist,
00:47:52.036 --> 00:47:56.549 but the information needs to be there because if you're out sick
00:47:56.549 --> 00:48:00.992 one day or the developer is out sick one day or you're both out
00:48:00.992 --> 00:48:05.297 sick one day and the question comes up and we need to go back
00:48:05.297 --> 00:48:09.601 and look, we don't like, we can go around and we can get into
00:48:09.601 --> 00:48:11.684 the back end of Microsoft and.
00:48:12.164 --> 00:48:15.403 You know, try and figure out what happened, but it is so much
00:48:15.403 --> 00:48:18.484 easier if you just put all of the information in the teams
00:48:18.484 --> 00:48:21.774 chat so much easier so that we can figure out what's going on.
00:48:24.694 --> 00:48:26.214 Absolutely. And I will add to that.
00:48:26.844 --> 00:48:30.574 Don't ever be afraid to ask a question pose a concern.
00:48:31.274 --> 00:48:34.632 About anything in there. If you're thinking about something
00:48:34.632 --> 00:48:37.933 and something doesn't seem right, like communicate as a PM
00:48:37.933 --> 00:48:40.954 and we should be encouraging our devs to do this too.
00:48:41.744 --> 00:48:44.476 That's what that teams channel is for. Nobody should be
00:48:44.476 --> 00:48:46.134 internalizing anything like that.
00:48:46.864 --> 00:48:49.584 You should be putting it out there so that everybody can have
00:48:49.584 --> 00:48:51.953 eyes on. That's why we're A-Team, because we can work
00:48:51.953 --> 00:48:52.654 Better Together.
00:48:56.104 --> 00:48:58.384 Alright. Any other thoughts?
00:48:59.374 --> 00:49:01.044 On this topic, before we move forward.
00:49:03.404 --> 00:49:04.144 Only once.
00:49:04.824 --> 00:49:05.684 Going twice.
00:49:06.724 --> 00:49:09.594 I have ohh I had one thing sorry.
00:49:06.854 --> 00:49:10.464 And we go. Ohh, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah.
00:49:10.314 --> 00:49:13.264 Ohh about exceeds estimation so.
00:49:14.564 --> 00:49:18.400 If there's a situation where you know it's kind of pressing of
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:22.418 like, it's the the constraint of timeline and budget together. So
00:49:22.418 --> 00:49:25.828 when when two, when both of those kind of tie into each
00:49:25.828 --> 00:49:29.664 other in the client is expecting something to be done based on
00:49:29.664 --> 00:49:33.682 you know their their expectation of having something completed on
00:49:33.682 --> 00:49:36.544 a timeline etcetera and something does go over
00:49:36.544 --> 00:49:37.274 estimations.
00:49:38.304 --> 00:49:41.460 What I have experienced so far is kind of, you know getting
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:44.038 with the developer figure, figuring out what the
00:49:44.038 --> 00:49:47.141 complexities were and then being able to speak to those to
00:49:47.141 --> 00:49:50.508 explain to the client. But then I earlier when it was mentioned
00:49:50.508 --> 00:49:53.875 of like, you know, as as you're finding that as if something is
00:49:53.875 --> 00:49:56.873 about to go over or it's starting to and pausing, how do
00:49:56.873 --> 00:50:00.187 you deal with that if it's like at the same time the client is
00:50:00.187 --> 00:50:01.554 expecting that to be done?
00:50:02.304 --> 00:50:05.008 Because that was the expectation set from like. You know, the
00:50:05.008 --> 00:50:07.624 last time you talked to them, you said, hey, you know, this
00:50:07.624 --> 00:50:10.284 will be done or is there is there just a better way like you
00:50:10.284 --> 00:50:12.726 know, clear communication letting them know like moving
00:50:12.726 --> 00:50:15.168 forward obviously like I've dealt with this now. So I'm
00:50:15.168 --> 00:50:15.734 learning but.
00:50:16.404 --> 00:50:19.219 Like moving forward of like is that is it better to do that
00:50:19.219 --> 00:50:19.594 instead?
00:50:20.454 --> 00:50:23.599 Even if the timeline constraint like I'd like would budget
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:24.984 matter more in that sense.
00:50:26.014 --> 00:50:29.639 Well, that's going to be client dependent. You know it's you're
00:50:26.024 --> 00:50:27.584 When you're kind of like prioritizing.
00:50:26.594 --> 00:50:27.214 It's.
00:50:28.504 --> 00:50:28.914 To.
00:50:28.594 --> 00:50:28.904 OK.
00:50:29.639 --> 00:50:33.265 gonna have different clients who have a different piece of the,
00:50:30.794 --> 00:50:32.364 Yeah, it depends on the client.
00:50:33.265 --> 00:50:36.437 you know, that triangle, you know, budget, timeline and
00:50:36.437 --> 00:50:39.835 scope. Which of those 3 isn't the most important to them if
00:50:39.835 --> 00:50:43.234 you know you have a client who the budget is the number one
00:50:43.234 --> 00:50:46.519 concern, then obviously yeah, pause. That's gonna be your
00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:50.087 answer. But if you have a client on the other hand who they're
00:50:47.704 --> 00:50:48.224 Yeah.
00:50:50.087 --> 00:50:53.599 not concerned about budget, they are totally they don't worry
00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:56.885 about it, whatever. But their timeline is then number one
00:50:56.885 --> 00:50:57.224 thing.
00:50:57.784 --> 00:51:00.499 Well, then you're going to have a different answer. But
00:51:00.499 --> 00:51:03.310 regardless of either one of those situations, that number
00:51:03.310 --> 00:51:04.764 one thing I would tell you is.
00:51:06.144 --> 00:51:09.798 Urgent and rapid communication don't sit on it. Don't wait.
00:51:09.798 --> 00:51:12.904 Communicate. As soon as you know there's an issue.
00:51:14.354 --> 00:51:18.093 Because that puts the agency into the client's hands to make
00:51:18.093 --> 00:51:18.644 the call.
00:51:21.114 --> 00:51:21.954 Gotcha. OK.
00:51:24.714 --> 00:51:25.244 Ben.
00:51:26.124 --> 00:51:27.024 Do you have more to add?
00:51:27.844 --> 00:51:29.894 No, I'm good. I'm good. You covered it well.
00:51:29.514 --> 00:51:30.244 I do.
00:51:30.854 --> 00:51:31.624 OK.
00:51:32.234 --> 00:51:35.664 I mean, I was. I would just say you said it well, but it at the
00:51:35.664 --> 00:51:38.825 bottom line is it just, it depends on what you and and the
00:51:38.825 --> 00:51:40.004 client have agreed to.
00:51:40.804 --> 00:51:41.094 Umm.
00:51:41.584 --> 00:51:43.194 That's that's really the bottom line.
00:51:43.714 --> 00:51:44.944 Two key points to that.
00:51:46.624 --> 00:51:52.388 We need to get into the habit of determining, based on everything
00:51:52.388 --> 00:51:56.404 that is in the documentation, from the sales.
00:51:57.314 --> 00:52:02.226 Through the contract to project kickoff that we are the arbiters
00:52:02.226 --> 00:52:06.759 of the project deadline clarity does not guarantee delivery
00:52:06.759 --> 00:52:11.595 dates and we need to manage that expectation from the onset. We
00:52:11.595 --> 00:52:16.204 can strive to hit a target goal, but we will not guarantee a
00:52:16.204 --> 00:52:20.511 delivery date and that includes deliverables and that is
00:52:20.511 --> 00:52:24.893 something that can be very powerful for the team at large
00:52:24.893 --> 00:52:27.084 to understand and hold on to.
00:52:27.284 --> 00:52:31.118 When it comes to this, the other piece that I want to call out is
00:52:31.118 --> 00:52:32.454 that there is a center.
00:52:33.544 --> 00:52:38.170 Constituent to the the triple constraint that we tend to
00:52:38.170 --> 00:52:42.552 overlook. So the triple constraint is timeline, scope
00:52:42.552 --> 00:52:46.934 and budget in the center of that triangle is quality.
00:52:48.104 --> 00:52:51.074 So if they are expecting pixel perfect.
00:52:52.224 --> 00:52:55.124 Then it's going to blow up all three of those timelines.
00:52:56.554 --> 00:52:58.604 Are all three of those sides of the triangle.
00:53:00.514 --> 00:53:00.954 That's all.
00:53:04.214 --> 00:53:07.105 At 7, I'm gonna ask you to do one thing. Your primary point
00:53:06.614 --> 00:53:06.934 Umm.
00:53:07.105 --> 00:53:08.984 there. Could you say it one more time?
00:53:09.124 --> 00:53:13.546 Yeah, there's just two things that we wanna keep in mind when
00:53:13.546 --> 00:53:17.611 it comes to people actually pressing us for I need this.
00:53:17.611 --> 00:53:21.818 Now. I need it perfect. And I don't wanna pay more. And we
00:53:21.818 --> 00:53:24.884 need to be able to speak to the fact that.
00:53:25.684 --> 00:53:29.111 It's not going to be perfect if you need it now and you don't
00:53:29.111 --> 00:53:32.482 want to pay more, there's going to have to be some degree of
00:53:32.482 --> 00:53:33.034 sacrifice.
00:53:33.974 --> 00:53:37.124 You know, maybe we take something out of the scope of
00:53:37.124 --> 00:53:37.824 the project.
00:53:38.524 --> 00:53:42.414 And then we can hit this expectation or we absolutely are
00:53:42.414 --> 00:53:46.372 gonna have to charge more because we need this thing to be
00:53:46.372 --> 00:53:50.798 pixel perfect. You are not going to launch your marketing efforts
00:53:50.798 --> 00:53:54.956 until every single aspect of this website matches your design
00:53:54.956 --> 00:53:56.834 and your branding guides so.
00:53:58.304 --> 00:54:02.408 This increases your timeline. This increases your budget. All
00:54:02.408 --> 00:54:06.313 of these things we need to manage the clients expectations
00:54:06.313 --> 00:54:10.086 right from the beginning and we need the constant gentle
00:54:10.086 --> 00:54:14.124 pressure, the moving everything back to the center with that
00:54:14.124 --> 00:54:17.764 salt shaker has to happen consecutively throughout the
00:54:17.764 --> 00:54:21.404 life of the project in order for UAT to be successful.
00:54:22.624 --> 00:54:26.104 If you've inherited a project that's already in a tricky
00:54:26.104 --> 00:54:29.462 state, that can be very difficult to get to, but it is
00:54:29.462 --> 00:54:32.820 something that's doable by constantly reiterating with
00:54:32.820 --> 00:54:36.423 them. So we need to manage expectations, and we need to be
00:54:36.423 --> 00:54:39.964 the ones that are driving the overall expectation of when
00:54:39.964 --> 00:54:43.505 something can be completed. We're not going to be able to
00:54:43.505 --> 00:54:45.214 speak to our sole developer.
00:54:46.664 --> 00:54:48.354 On this particular project.
00:54:49.884 --> 00:54:53.774 Breaks a leg playing sport ball.
00:54:57.284 --> 00:55:01.184 Things happen, yes, but things happen and contingencies come
00:54:57.374 --> 00:54:59.004 At least they didn't break a hand.
00:55:01.184 --> 00:55:04.573 up, and so the more that a client is holding on to a
00:55:04.573 --> 00:55:07.962 deadline, the more we are setting ourselves up for a
00:55:07.962 --> 00:55:12.054 challenging conversation. So we need to manage that expectation
00:55:12.054 --> 00:55:16.082 and say we're going to get as close to this as possible, but I
00:55:16.082 --> 00:55:19.214 cannot guarantee that delivery date Mr customer.
00:55:20.704 --> 00:55:25.389 I'm gonna say it a third time for the people in the back, we
00:55:25.389 --> 00:55:30.150 do not guarantee delivery dates. We do not guarantee that our
00:55:30.150 --> 00:55:33.144 estimations are gonna be 100% correct.
00:55:33.944 --> 00:55:36.414 Their estimations timeline budget.
00:55:37.244 --> 00:55:38.824 Estimations.
00:55:41.174 --> 00:55:41.834 All right.
00:55:43.114 --> 00:55:44.094 We're ready to move on.
00:55:44.744 --> 00:55:46.954 Yes, time boxed no.
00:55:45.424 --> 00:55:49.613 What if they're not accurate? Uh, and just kidding. What? Go
00:55:46.864 --> 00:55:47.064 Yeah.
00:55:48.884 --> 00:55:51.976 Then you blame Eric and you throw them under the bus and you
00:55:49.613 --> 00:55:51.054 on, it's an oxymoron.
00:55:51.976 --> 00:55:55.068 do all the things we said not to do in the last hour anyway.
00:55:55.068 --> 00:55:55.574 Moving on.
00:55:56.704 --> 00:56:00.634 OK, so the last point I want to talk about in terms of.
00:56:01.754 --> 00:56:06.415 The core tenets is the dual nature of ownership and the
00:56:06.415 --> 00:56:09.744 escalations run tackle ownership first.
00:56:10.864 --> 00:56:15.438 So this is kind of what uh Ben brought up earlier about agency
00:56:15.438 --> 00:56:16.164 ownership.
00:56:16.904 --> 00:56:17.954 What does it mean?
00:56:19.074 --> 00:56:23.794 To be an owner of a project as a project manager at clarity, it
00:56:23.794 --> 00:56:26.374 means you're directly responsible.
00:56:27.164 --> 00:56:29.434 For both the successes and challenges.
00:56:30.704 --> 00:56:34.131 From how we plan and how we manage things are gonna go off
00:56:34.131 --> 00:56:37.674 the rails, but it's our job to find a way to resolve it with
00:56:37.674 --> 00:56:40.984 our client, with our team, and with our leadership team.
00:56:43.004 --> 00:56:45.134 Being a project manager is not easy.
00:56:45.874 --> 00:56:50.910 You have so many hats to wear. So many my personal the the word
00:56:50.910 --> 00:56:54.214 I like to use for it is a servant leader.
00:56:55.874 --> 00:56:59.011 You are not only a leader, but you are also somebody's
00:56:59.011 --> 00:57:02.603 advocate. You are responsible for making decisions, but you're
00:57:02.603 --> 00:57:04.884 also responsible for supporting people.
00:57:07.594 --> 00:57:09.584 You're a representative for clarity.
00:57:10.804 --> 00:57:12.434 You are all these things at once.
00:57:13.394 --> 00:57:17.454 And your consistency, integrity, resilience.
00:57:18.244 --> 00:57:20.374 All of these things are the key.
00:57:21.474 --> 00:57:22.204 Your success.
00:57:23.904 --> 00:57:28.194 You know, we included here quote from Eisenhower saying plans are
00:57:28.194 --> 00:57:31.899 useless, but planning is indispensable. So what we write
00:57:31.899 --> 00:57:35.929 down the numbers, we prepare the timelines, we make the Gantt
00:57:35.929 --> 00:57:36.384 charts.
00:57:38.004 --> 00:57:39.724 Those concrete things.
00:57:40.394 --> 00:57:42.536 Aren't necessarily going to serve us. They're not
00:57:42.536 --> 00:57:45.277 necessarily going to be right. The waterfall for the project is
00:57:45.277 --> 00:57:48.019 not necessarily gonna match what it looks like when we actually
00:57:48.019 --> 00:57:48.404 build it.
00:57:49.504 --> 00:57:54.163 But the act of doing that planning is indispensable. What
00:57:54.163 --> 00:57:58.019 we bring to the projects as project managers is
00:57:58.019 --> 00:57:59.464 indispensable you.
00:58:00.244 --> 00:58:03.399 Everyone here today is indispensable and how you handle
00:58:03.399 --> 00:58:07.118 the situations that are in front of you, handling them with grace
00:58:07.118 --> 00:58:10.273 and compassion and keeping everybody's best interest in
00:58:10.273 --> 00:58:10.554 mind.
00:58:11.324 --> 00:58:11.764 That.
00:58:12.434 --> 00:58:14.174 Is what it means to own a project.
00:58:15.014 --> 00:58:18.187 And I would like to open the floor here as well, even though
00:58:18.187 --> 00:58:21.307 it's not on the slide to say it's a group exercise. I would
00:58:21.307 --> 00:58:24.532 love to go around the room and have everybody talk about what
00:58:24.532 --> 00:58:27.444 it means to be to take ownership of a project for them.
00:58:28.064 --> 00:58:30.194 We don't have a ton of time left, so let's be quick about
00:58:30.194 --> 00:58:30.304 it.
00:58:31.774 --> 00:58:34.364 Started. Stop. Amy, you start with an A. You can go first.
00:58:38.194 --> 00:58:38.874 Yay, OK.
00:58:39.684 --> 00:58:43.533 So obviously a lot of the projects that I have inherited,
00:58:43.533 --> 00:58:44.794 you know, I didn't.
00:58:45.494 --> 00:58:48.589 Obviously start with them and I'm slowly learning that I
00:58:48.589 --> 00:58:51.683 because I have inherited these. It is, you know, it's my
00:58:51.683 --> 00:58:54.614 responsibility to take ownership of what's happening.
00:58:55.484 --> 00:58:55.974 So.
00:58:57.884 --> 00:58:58.574 Ohh sorry.
00:59:01.024 --> 00:59:04.022 So I obviously you said it's a lot of hats to wear. It's a lot
00:59:04.022 --> 00:59:06.924 of things to be aware of and to manage and to keep track of.
00:59:08.754 --> 00:59:11.264 No, no, OK, sorry. I keep reading the chat.
00:59:14.594 --> 00:59:16.798 I'm not really sure how to answer this question other than
00:59:16.798 --> 00:59:16.984 like.
00:59:18.004 --> 00:59:21.110 You know, like you said, you're representative of clarity. It is
00:59:21.110 --> 00:59:23.785 important to make sure that clients are aware of what's
00:59:23.785 --> 00:59:26.794 going on, that you're checking in with developers, that you're
00:59:26.794 --> 00:59:27.224 managing.
00:59:27.964 --> 00:59:32.409 You know the budget. Any other reporting types of things like
00:59:32.409 --> 00:59:33.484 such as EP and.
00:59:34.484 --> 00:59:36.234 Power BI, et cetera and.
00:59:38.754 --> 00:59:40.124 I'm like blanking. I'm sorry.
00:59:40.114 --> 00:59:42.475 Now you're no. The those that was great. And thank you. I
00:59:42.364 --> 00:59:42.784 And.
00:59:42.475 --> 00:59:45.079 appreciate it. I put you on the spot. Then you're B. You can go
00:59:45.079 --> 00:59:45.364 second.
00:59:45.334 --> 00:59:48.889 All right. I was gonna say does be get to go second. So yeah, I
00:59:47.664 --> 00:59:48.454 It does.
00:59:48.534 --> 00:59:49.424 Sorry.
00:59:48.889 --> 00:59:51.444 I'll keep this real short but like basically.
00:59:53.084 --> 00:59:56.662 First of all, you can use use taking like the act of taking
00:59:56.662 --> 01:00:00.598 ownership as as a way to sort of mitigate and escalation. Because
01:00:00.598 --> 01:00:04.414 you do want to reassure, not, I mean not only reassure them you
01:00:04.414 --> 01:00:08.052 wanna actually take ownership, which I'll touch on what that
01:00:08.052 --> 01:00:11.868 means, but like just letting the client know that you're taking
01:00:11.868 --> 01:00:15.387 ownership of an issue when it comes up, that's a potential
01:00:15.387 --> 01:00:19.143 escalation that could go up to management, that sort of thing.
01:00:19.143 --> 01:00:22.721 Like if it if you say it and mean it and actually you know,
01:00:22.721 --> 01:00:23.854 keep your word and.
01:00:24.134 --> 01:00:27.931 Follow through and and do the do the thing that you're supposed
01:00:27.931 --> 01:00:31.312 to do, which you know is most time looping in other team
01:00:31.312 --> 01:00:34.753 members getting a problem solved, whatever it may be, but
01:00:34.753 --> 01:00:38.490 you you take ownership of the outcome is the key there and you
01:00:38.490 --> 01:00:42.168 let the client know that you're taking ownership and a lot of
01:00:42.168 --> 01:00:42.524 times.
01:00:43.604 --> 01:00:46.948 You know, given your track record with them, if if you're
01:00:46.948 --> 01:00:48.274 if you've proven to be.
01:00:50.184 --> 01:00:54.082 Reliable and and and you know decent on follow up. You know
01:00:54.082 --> 01:00:58.174 that you'll you'll be forgiven by the client in most cases for
01:00:58.174 --> 01:01:02.136 issues that come up that you know maybe there was some gross
01:01:02.136 --> 01:01:05.903 oversight maybe there was an issue acknowledged the issue
01:01:05.903 --> 01:01:09.996 acknowledge that you're taking ownership of the issue and come
01:01:09.996 --> 01:01:13.698 up with an action plan to address it. But I mean it just
01:01:11.814 --> 01:01:12.514 That's perfect.
01:01:13.698 --> 01:01:17.335 simply means you're taking agency to like you're taking
01:01:17.294 --> 01:01:17.774 All right.
01:01:17.335 --> 01:01:18.894 responsibility right so.
01:01:18.724 --> 01:01:22.084 Thank you, Ben. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.
01:01:19.084 --> 01:01:21.184 That's it. I'm done. Thanks.
01:01:22.084 --> 01:01:23.204 Alright, see Clint.
01:01:24.924 --> 01:01:26.194 Like what we're doing, the alphabet.
01:01:24.984 --> 01:01:25.954 Not just for Cookie.
01:01:26.974 --> 01:01:27.344 Yeah.
01:01:28.054 --> 01:01:32.564 Ownership, to me is is when it comes down to it, whenever your.
01:01:33.374 --> 01:01:37.447 Get a request from the client or the developers. It's making sure
01:01:37.447 --> 01:01:41.334 that there's some follow up so that could include just putting
01:01:41.334 --> 01:01:44.604 something on your agenda or to do that could include
01:01:44.604 --> 01:01:47.750 prioritizing the work for somebody else. Sometimes
01:01:47.750 --> 01:01:51.576 developers are asking you, hey, is this something I should be
01:01:51.576 --> 01:01:52.254 working on?
01:01:52.894 --> 01:01:56.579 Umm, because it came up mid Sprint and maybe they shouldn't
01:01:56.579 --> 01:02:00.324 be. And then like equally so if a client is asking you, hey,
01:02:00.324 --> 01:02:04.009 this is what we want, but it there's some uncertainty where
01:02:04.009 --> 01:02:07.447 they they don't actually know exactly what that's gonna
01:02:07.447 --> 01:02:11.439 entail. Ownership requires that you kind of reach out internally
01:02:11.439 --> 01:02:15.307 if you don't know or if you do have the experience to say hey,
01:02:15.307 --> 01:02:18.807 maybe there's a better way, maybe there's a more optimal
01:02:18.807 --> 01:02:22.737 way, maybe there's less or more budget friendly way to go about
01:02:22.737 --> 01:02:23.044 this.
01:02:23.124 --> 01:02:27.212 And so identifying those and then following up on them is
01:02:27.212 --> 01:02:27.634 where?
01:02:28.414 --> 01:02:31.525 The entirety of ownership is going to matter as long as
01:02:31.525 --> 01:02:34.803 you're doing that the rest of the project can have ups and
01:02:34.803 --> 01:02:38.358 downs, but you're gonna be kind of the static pillar holding it
01:02:38.358 --> 01:02:38.524 up.
01:02:39.564 --> 01:02:43.214 You're here. That was well said, Clint. Thank you, Daniel.
01:02:45.274 --> 01:02:47.464 To me, it's knowing exactly what the project does.
01:02:49.354 --> 01:02:53.239 So there's no question about it, like whatever the project does,
01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:56.884 that's what it does. And you're following that path forward.
01:02:57.634 --> 01:03:00.706 You know what happens when the button clicks? You know what
01:03:00.706 --> 01:03:03.726 happens when all that other stuff happens. You are the the
01:03:03.726 --> 01:03:06.849 principle of the project. You know what it is. You know what
01:03:06.849 --> 01:03:09.562 the client wants and you can help kind of meet their
01:03:09.562 --> 01:03:10.534 expectations on it.
01:03:12.414 --> 01:03:14.574 Antastic. Thank you, Daniel, Eric.
01:03:19.724 --> 01:03:22.014 Ditto. I'm dealing with some on the back end. I'm sorry.
01:03:21.814 --> 01:03:25.599 OK, alright, that was Eric. Turn. He did well, alright.
01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:27.964 Who's next? That would be Preston.
01:03:35.414 --> 01:03:38.370 And maybe also left Earing another meeting. We will we move
01:03:38.370 --> 01:03:40.044 forward and come back, Stephanie.
01:03:41.114 --> 01:03:41.984 Integrity.
01:03:42.834 --> 01:03:46.684 And with all things operate with integrity and clarity, pun
01:03:46.684 --> 01:03:48.544 intended, and shameless plug.
01:03:49.264 --> 01:03:49.704 I don't.
01:03:51.034 --> 01:03:51.874 Trying to end.
01:03:52.914 --> 01:03:57.215 Yeah, just, uh, you know, not just taking credit for success,
01:03:57.215 --> 01:04:00.821 but also taking credit for things that haven't been
01:04:00.821 --> 01:04:01.584 successful.
01:04:02.804 --> 01:04:05.591 You know, taking ownership of the things that didn't go the
01:04:05.591 --> 01:04:06.984 way they were supposed to. Uh.
01:04:07.784 --> 01:04:11.376 And then also just being honest with the client, like for
01:04:11.376 --> 01:04:15.339 example, if you have a project where maybe there's not a lot of
01:04:15.339 --> 01:04:19.117 up to date documentation, just having that conversation with
01:04:19.117 --> 01:04:22.895 the client and saying, hey, I do not have any information on
01:04:22.895 --> 01:04:26.796 this. You know, I'm new to the project, I'm ramping up and I'm
01:04:26.796 --> 01:04:30.636 trying to get a feel for where we're at right now. We need to
01:04:30.636 --> 01:04:34.289 have a conversation about everything that you're expecting
01:04:34.289 --> 01:04:36.704 so that we can get some documentation.
01:04:39.414 --> 01:04:43.493 Fantastic. And I will. Second what Trenton just said there,
01:04:43.493 --> 01:04:45.804 the buck stops with you. You are.
01:04:47.074 --> 01:04:50.174 There for your team and that team includes both the client
01:04:50.174 --> 01:04:51.224 and your developers.
01:04:52.514 --> 01:04:53.244 And.
01:04:54.184 --> 01:04:57.467 Tied in with that is be willing to say you don't know when you
01:04:57.467 --> 01:05:00.489 don't know ownership doesn't just mean faking that you do
01:05:00.489 --> 01:05:02.364 know everything about your project.
01:05:03.044 --> 01:05:06.140 Obviously Daniel's goal, that's a great one to know everything
01:05:06.140 --> 01:05:09.187 the project does, because we do need to do that. But when you
01:05:09.187 --> 01:05:11.988 don't, ownership also means admitting that acknowledging
01:05:11.988 --> 01:05:14.888 that and then going find the information, like Clint said,
01:05:14.888 --> 01:05:18.131 holding yourself accountable for following up on the thing. So if
01:05:18.131 --> 01:05:21.030 there's something you don't know, go get your answer, find
01:05:21.030 --> 01:05:24.028 it somewhere, because it exists, whether it's in the clients
01:05:24.028 --> 01:05:25.944 head, your developers head in the FSD.
01:05:26.944 --> 01:05:31.628 Yes, alright. Thank you everybody. And we are gonna move
01:05:31.628 --> 01:05:31.874 on.
01:05:34.774 --> 01:05:39.050 Two one of the funnest topics we have, which is DS collation, and
01:05:39.050 --> 01:05:42.936 we are going to talk about this as a group. But first we're
01:05:39.224 --> 01:05:39.714 Ohh.
01:05:42.936 --> 01:05:46.952 gonna chat through some ideas and thoughts that Stephanie and
01:05:46.952 --> 01:05:49.284 I developed on this topic together.
01:05:51.204 --> 01:05:55.491 What can we do to deescalate issues when they crop up with
01:05:55.491 --> 01:05:58.034 kids? Because they're going to #1.
01:05:58.814 --> 01:06:00.624 Keep your tone in your message neutral.
01:06:01.394 --> 01:06:04.376 This is back to all the things we already talked about. Watch
01:06:04.376 --> 01:06:07.022 your language, and if your camera's on, if you're in a
01:06:07.022 --> 01:06:10.052 meeting where your client wants cameras, be aware of your body
01:06:10.052 --> 01:06:10.484 language.
01:06:11.204 --> 01:06:14.634 Eyes to the camera. Watch your face. Don't fidget too much.
01:06:14.634 --> 01:06:18.179 Obviously, this is part of the reason why I or you know, less
01:06:18.179 --> 01:06:21.438 camera friendly client. You know, environment isn't bad.
01:06:21.438 --> 01:06:25.153 It's one last thing. You have to be aware of. But if your camera
01:06:25.153 --> 01:06:27.154 is on, you need to be aware of it.
01:06:28.434 --> 01:06:31.554 You need to be aware of your reactions to the situation.
01:06:32.324 --> 01:06:35.521 Try to avoid overreacting. Try to avoid having a strong
01:06:35.521 --> 01:06:38.890 emotional reaction to this situation. Like we said before,
01:06:38.890 --> 01:06:39.974 it's a transaction.
01:06:40.674 --> 01:06:43.748 Think of it that way. It's not reflective on you as a person,
01:06:43.748 --> 01:06:47.020 no matter what your client says. Whatever thing that comes out of
01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:47.614 their mouth.
01:06:48.304 --> 01:06:51.694 Don't react. It's hard to do and it's easier to say.
01:06:52.454 --> 01:06:55.430 But it's what we should all strive for. Focus on the
01:06:55.430 --> 01:06:58.854 thoughts that are behind your client's reactions. Try to get
01:06:58.854 --> 01:07:02.503 them to communicate what they're actually worried about, because
01:07:02.503 --> 01:07:03.794 when a client gets mad.
01:07:04.834 --> 01:07:07.866 They're getting mad because there's something else they're
01:07:07.866 --> 01:07:11.154 thinking about. They're worrying about something. They're lying
01:07:11.154 --> 01:07:14.031 about their launch, their budget, their job, whether or
01:07:14.031 --> 01:07:17.165 not they're gonna get fired because this didn't go the way I
01:07:17.165 --> 01:07:20.402 thought it was gonna go. Try to get your client to communicate
01:07:20.402 --> 01:07:23.382 what is actually inspiring any sort of emotional reaction
01:07:23.382 --> 01:07:26.465 they're having and ignore that emotional outburst that does
01:07:26.465 --> 01:07:26.824 happen.
01:07:27.504 --> 01:07:30.775 Because it's not gonna contribute to our overall goal
01:07:30.775 --> 01:07:34.529 of a successful completion to the project, never get on their
01:07:34.529 --> 01:07:38.465 level. If a client gets mad and it's screaming, yelling and just
01:07:38.465 --> 01:07:40.524 having a huge outburst like that.
01:07:41.444 --> 01:07:44.863 Don't think to their level. You gotta stay calm and you gotta
01:07:44.863 --> 01:07:45.634 stay above it.
01:07:47.034 --> 01:07:50.598 A trick is to use somebody's name. People love hearing their
01:07:50.598 --> 01:07:52.584 name. It makes them feel special.
01:07:53.704 --> 01:07:54.994 So engage with that.
01:07:56.374 --> 01:07:58.844 Remind them that you know there are human person.
01:08:00.764 --> 01:08:04.365 Don't ever argue with them if they're in an emotional state,
01:08:04.365 --> 01:08:06.254 it's not gonna get you anywhere.
01:08:07.114 --> 01:08:10.906 Let them know that you're hearing them, and then come back
01:08:10.906 --> 01:08:13.284 later when temperatures have cooled.
01:08:14.294 --> 01:08:17.744 To converse more and to try to win them over to.
01:08:18.534 --> 01:08:21.214 Your side of perspective on the things.
01:08:23.344 --> 01:08:27.319 Acknowledge their position and how they feel without apology.
01:08:27.319 --> 01:08:30.846 We're not looking to say I'm sorry that you're mad, Mr
01:08:30.846 --> 01:08:31.294 client.
01:08:33.074 --> 01:08:36.597 But you want to validate their frustration. I understand that
01:08:36.597 --> 01:08:40.007 it can be frustrating when things like this happen, but you
01:08:40.007 --> 01:08:43.587 wanna make sure you don't come across as condescending. Like I
01:08:43.587 --> 01:08:46.996 understand your mad little Timmy. Not like that, but honest
01:08:46.996 --> 01:08:50.519 empathy. I totally get that this is frustrating. Like, I know
01:08:50.519 --> 01:08:54.099 that you guys have this deadline and you have people expecting
01:08:54.099 --> 01:08:57.224 you to achieve these things. I know that this is hard.
01:08:57.974 --> 01:08:59.684 This is what we're going to do to make it better.
01:09:01.544 --> 01:09:05.222 Your goal in these situations is not to win the argument, but
01:09:05.222 --> 01:09:08.722 rather to make sure that the person on the other end of it
01:09:08.722 --> 01:09:09.374 feels hurt.
01:09:11.984 --> 01:09:16.043 And this is a piece of advice I received in a romantic context,
01:09:16.043 --> 01:09:19.912 but it applies here. It's not you versus them. It's the both
01:09:19.912 --> 01:09:21.624 of you against the problem.
01:09:22.624 --> 01:09:26.405 Always reframe things to that way, even when the client can't
01:09:26.405 --> 01:09:26.954 see that.
01:09:28.694 --> 01:09:29.824 Know your audience.
01:09:30.774 --> 01:09:34.260 Know what's going to resonate with the people you're talking
01:09:34.260 --> 01:09:37.859 to. This is a hard one to teach, and we can definitely work on
01:09:37.859 --> 01:09:39.344 coaching it together. But.
01:09:40.084 --> 01:09:42.678 Getting to know the people you're working with and the
01:09:42.678 --> 01:09:45.743 things that are going to trigger them versus the things that are
01:09:45.743 --> 01:09:46.874 going to calm them down.
01:09:49.444 --> 01:09:50.624 Allow for silence.
01:09:51.844 --> 01:09:55.605 So your clients freaking out and they're screaming and yelling
01:09:55.605 --> 01:09:57.754 and nothing that they're saying is.
01:09:59.964 --> 01:10:03.014 Contributing to making things better.
01:10:04.034 --> 01:10:08.164 And then they stopped. Don't just immediately rush to fill
01:10:08.164 --> 01:10:12.504 the silence. Give it a couple seconds. Let them sit in quiet.
01:10:13.214 --> 01:10:14.364 And come down a little bit.
01:10:15.204 --> 01:10:19.153 And then when they're showing signs of having recovered a
01:10:19.153 --> 01:10:23.579 little bit, then open your mouth then redirect. OK, I understand
01:10:23.579 --> 01:10:27.528 this is frustrating. This is what we're gonna do and give
01:10:27.528 --> 01:10:31.954 them time to make decisions. Put the agency back in their hands.
01:10:31.954 --> 01:10:35.494 Like Ben said before, if somebody saying, you know.
01:10:36.514 --> 01:10:37.334 We need this.
01:10:38.204 --> 01:10:41.219 You can say, well, here's our options if we do this, it's
01:10:41.219 --> 01:10:44.337 gonna cause this budgetary issue. If we do that, it's going
01:10:44.337 --> 01:10:47.507 to cause this timeline issue, which is more important. Which
01:10:47.507 --> 01:10:49.274 option would you like to go with?
01:10:50.064 --> 01:10:52.609 Let them have the agency of making that decision to make
01:10:52.609 --> 01:10:53.234 things better.
01:10:54.674 --> 01:10:57.589 But definitely set a time box for needing a decision from them
01:10:57.589 --> 01:10:59.994 and follow up with them. If they're not needing it.
01:11:02.214 --> 01:11:03.784 Asked open-ended questions.
01:11:04.984 --> 01:11:05.584 So.
01:11:06.234 --> 01:11:09.501 Don't just ask yes or no when you're trying to understand
01:11:09.501 --> 01:11:12.711 where client is coming from. Don't word it in such a way
01:11:12.711 --> 01:11:15.864 there's like, do you like cookies? Yes, I like cookies.
01:11:16.894 --> 01:11:18.394 Austin, what kind of cookies they like?
01:11:19.094 --> 01:11:20.934 And then reframe what you heard.
01:11:21.604 --> 01:11:23.984 In your own words, to make sure you're understanding them.
01:11:25.294 --> 01:11:26.724 They say I like chocolate chips.
01:11:27.424 --> 01:11:28.474 Make sure you say.
01:11:29.304 --> 01:11:32.754 Oh, you like regular chocolate chips? Do you like nuts in them?
01:11:32.754 --> 01:11:35.394 Do you like oatmeal in it? Get the full picture.
01:11:36.424 --> 01:11:40.193 Make sure you're repeating it back to make sure that they're
01:11:40.193 --> 01:11:43.034 saying what you're hearing. That makes sense.
01:11:45.264 --> 01:11:48.902 Offer solutions and options for them to choose from so that they
01:11:48.902 --> 01:11:52.483 feel some level of control about getting to the success line of
01:11:52.483 --> 01:11:53.154 the project.
01:11:54.764 --> 01:11:57.044 And always offered to bring concerns and feedback to our
01:11:57.044 --> 01:11:57.684 leadership team.
01:11:59.214 --> 01:12:02.164 Always offered his head up another call and and discussed
01:12:02.164 --> 01:12:05.215 further. You know, if if the conversation can't be resolved
01:12:05.215 --> 01:12:08.216 right there on the line, tell them what you're gonna do to
01:12:08.216 --> 01:12:08.724 follow up.
01:12:09.694 --> 01:12:12.914 Offered to meet with them again. Offered to have enough, the
01:12:12.914 --> 01:12:16.081 conversation offered to bring leadership into it, but don't
01:12:16.081 --> 01:12:19.248 ever overpromise. Don't tell them we can do things that you
01:12:19.248 --> 01:12:22.362 don't necessarily know we can do to get out of a difficult
01:12:22.362 --> 01:12:25.687 conversation. Don't promise them credits. Don't promise them a
01:12:25.687 --> 01:12:29.117 new timeline. Don't promise them anything that we can't hold to.
01:12:29.117 --> 01:12:32.126 Promise them what you can actually do. Promise them that
01:12:32.126 --> 01:12:34.184 you will talk to your leadership team.
01:12:36.014 --> 01:12:38.846 And follow through on those commitments. If you tell them
01:12:38.846 --> 01:12:41.628 you're going to talk to leadership, Ping Stephanie Ping,
01:12:41.628 --> 01:12:42.604 Brandon Ping, Chris.
01:12:43.244 --> 01:12:46.506 Bring it up if that's what you've promised them. Don't just
01:12:46.506 --> 01:12:49.877 let it slide by and assume that it's gonna go away before the
01:12:49.877 --> 01:12:51.344 next time you talk to them.
01:12:52.744 --> 01:12:53.494 Follow through.
01:12:54.854 --> 01:12:58.697 So those are our suggestions. Those are our things that we
01:12:58.697 --> 01:13:02.669 thought would be helpful. I would love to open the floor for
01:13:02.669 --> 01:13:06.707 anyone else quickly because we still don't have a ton of time
01:13:06.707 --> 01:13:10.744 to share any other deescalation techniques that they know of.
01:13:13.074 --> 01:13:14.964 Yeah, I'll. I'll certainly add.
01:13:15.814 --> 01:13:19.575 I find myself on a number of these, and whenever you do have
01:13:19.575 --> 01:13:20.684 to deal with them.
01:13:22.144 --> 01:13:23.474 Keeping a.
01:13:24.474 --> 01:13:27.984 Giving them the space to talk first is always important, and I
01:13:27.984 --> 01:13:30.993 know that's one of the techniques in here, but making
01:13:30.993 --> 01:13:34.392 sure that they get every single one of their grievances out.
01:13:34.392 --> 01:13:37.679 Because if you're trying to cut in throughout the process,
01:13:37.679 --> 01:13:41.356 they're just not gonna feel like they're being heard. Second part
01:13:41.356 --> 01:13:42.804 of it is making sure that.
01:13:44.604 --> 01:13:47.514 When you're working through solutions.
01:13:49.804 --> 01:13:53.142 You kind of let them understand that this is just one step on
01:13:53.142 --> 01:13:56.533 finding that solution, so you may not have an immediate answer
01:13:56.533 --> 01:13:59.870 on how to solve the problem, but you can at least give them a
01:13:59.870 --> 01:14:03.046 perspective of. Here's what we're gonna do next. Or here's
01:14:03.046 --> 01:14:06.330 what we can plan to do going forward. It keeps it more human
01:14:06.330 --> 01:14:09.344 and less committal because you may have to come back to
01:14:09.344 --> 01:14:12.735 management and management will give their thoughts, and that's
01:14:12.735 --> 01:14:15.696 where it's kind of the building process. If the client
01:14:15.696 --> 01:14:18.602 understands that which that's part of the process and
01:14:18.602 --> 01:14:19.194 escalation.
01:14:19.834 --> 01:14:22.853 Then they'll be more understanding of what those next
01:14:22.853 --> 01:14:26.374 steps may be. The worst thing you could do is over promise and
01:14:26.374 --> 01:14:29.504 under deliver it. That just caused further frustration.
01:14:33.204 --> 01:14:34.714 Fantastic. Anybody else?
01:14:39.884 --> 01:14:42.853 Mickey, I think you and I could do a whole seminar on this
01:14:42.853 --> 01:14:43.154 piece.
01:14:44.514 --> 01:14:45.004 That's fair.
01:14:44.514 --> 01:14:48.344 But I do want to stress a couple of points in here.
01:14:49.794 --> 01:14:50.454 That.
01:14:51.504 --> 01:14:54.394 Have a proven track record.
01:14:56.304 --> 01:15:02.996 Allowing time for silence is so powerful, and it is such a thing
01:15:02.996 --> 01:15:09.481 that we as project managers have such a hard time with it goes
01:15:09.481 --> 01:15:10.304 against.
01:15:11.104 --> 01:15:16.334 Every part of our being because we all spend our lives talking.
01:15:18.874 --> 01:15:22.803 Allowing for silence gives people a minute to reflect on
01:15:22.803 --> 01:15:26.800 what they just said. It shows active listening because it
01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:31.073 shows that you're reflecting on what they just said, and it's
01:15:31.073 --> 01:15:35.414 going to immediately cause them a little bit of a mind switch.
01:15:36.874 --> 01:15:40.604 Where they're wondering now what you're thinking, which is going
01:15:40.604 --> 01:15:42.784 to immediately get them out of anger.
01:15:43.654 --> 01:15:46.783 Because they have to put themselves into a reasoning
01:15:46.783 --> 01:15:49.734 position in order to wonder what you're thinking.
01:15:51.054 --> 01:15:52.944 It is such a powerful tool.
01:15:55.144 --> 01:15:59.634 Offering up potential solutions. Whether or not that solution is
01:15:59.634 --> 01:16:02.534 something that is actionable immediately.
01:16:03.834 --> 01:16:05.684 Let me take this back to my leadership.
01:16:07.004 --> 01:16:11.059 Let's talk about ways that you can have an impact on your
01:16:11.059 --> 01:16:15.114 project. Let me show you how you can deal with your data.
01:16:16.394 --> 01:16:20.196 All of these things are immensely powerful because
01:16:20.196 --> 01:16:24.520 you're giving them an option. You're not flat out denying
01:16:24.520 --> 01:16:25.414 their anger.
01:16:26.434 --> 01:16:30.274 You're trying to help them when they see you.
01:16:30.984 --> 01:16:32.134 As an advocate.
01:16:32.954 --> 01:16:34.814 The game changes every time.
01:16:38.094 --> 01:16:38.694 That's all from me.
01:16:40.344 --> 01:16:41.514 You're here.
01:16:43.884 --> 01:16:46.662 Yeah. And if we have just a second, can I ask a quick
01:16:46.662 --> 01:16:47.124 question?
01:16:48.034 --> 01:16:48.414 Please.
01:16:48.164 --> 01:16:51.074 Uh, so, for reframing what you heard.
01:16:52.274 --> 01:16:55.573 Is that something you would call out to them like beforehand so
01:16:55.573 --> 01:16:58.304 that it doesn't sound like patronizing or something?
01:16:57.844 --> 01:16:58.684 Yes.
01:16:58.894 --> 01:17:02.284 Absolutely. I I always. I always frame it.
01:16:58.994 --> 01:16:59.504 Umm.
01:16:59.994 --> 01:17:00.464 OK.
01:17:00.214 --> 01:17:02.164 Stephanie is the best at that.
01:17:03.634 --> 01:17:06.399 I believe that I always frame it as like let me let me repeat
01:17:06.399 --> 01:17:09.297 that back to you, make sure I'm understanding what exactly it is
01:17:09.297 --> 01:17:10.144 you're looking for.
01:17:11.174 --> 01:17:12.304 OK. That makes sense.
01:17:11.354 --> 01:17:12.654 And the even then.
01:17:11.574 --> 01:17:14.216 You know frame it, frame it as like. I don't understand. I
01:17:14.216 --> 01:17:16.992 wanna make sure I understand. You know that kind of thing. Go
01:17:16.354 --> 01:17:16.744 Mm-hmm.
01:17:16.864 --> 01:17:20.393 And throw in an apology too, right? Like I I'm sorry for
01:17:16.992 --> 01:17:17.484 ahead Eric.
01:17:19.074 --> 01:17:19.544 Yeah.
01:17:20.393 --> 01:17:24.418 being really obtuse here. Like, I just wanna make sure we're all
01:17:24.418 --> 01:17:28.442 on the same page. I heard that. Right. Like, you know, if you if
01:17:24.614 --> 01:17:24.964 Yeah.
01:17:28.442 --> 01:17:32.528 you feel weird by repeating that back, apologize for feeling like
01:17:32.528 --> 01:17:36.305 you have to repeat it back. But that'll kind of give buy you
01:17:36.305 --> 01:17:36.614 some.
01:17:37.594 --> 01:17:40.507 You know, with them too. So I think that's that's always good.
01:17:40.507 --> 01:17:43.467 But yeah, definitely, definitely mention it before hand because
01:17:43.467 --> 01:17:46.426 it you write it might sound kind of patronizing if you just say
01:17:46.426 --> 01:17:47.674 so you have a problem with.
01:17:48.454 --> 01:17:49.224 Yeah.
01:17:50.124 --> 01:17:50.404 The.
01:17:50.434 --> 01:17:53.430 Absolutely no. But I mean, honestly, I always think about
01:17:53.430 --> 01:17:56.632 it. I spent a lot of years in food service. So I always think
01:17:56.632 --> 01:17:59.783 about it as you feel better about your waitress having taken
01:17:59.783 --> 01:18:02.882 your order. If she says it back to you. So you know, you're
01:18:02.882 --> 01:18:04.534 getting exactly what you wanted.
01:18:03.704 --> 01:18:04.894 100%.
01:18:05.124 --> 01:18:05.474 Mm-hmm.
01:18:06.534 --> 01:18:07.364 Call the order back.
01:18:11.724 --> 01:18:12.834 Any other questions?
01:18:18.804 --> 01:18:22.229 Right. So that's that's everything we've got here today.
01:18:22.229 --> 01:18:25.954 We've talked about all of these things. We reviewed all these
01:18:25.954 --> 01:18:29.318 core pillars. I appreciate everybody being here to talk
01:18:29.318 --> 01:18:32.863 about this together. This was great and we do still have a
01:18:32.863 --> 01:18:34.064 couple minutes left.
01:18:34.144 --> 01:18:37.435 Umm, I we I'd say let's let's open the floor for questions.
01:18:37.435 --> 01:18:40.617 Unless Stephanie has something else to direct our last 10
01:18:40.617 --> 01:18:41.494 minutes towards.