| Topic | Presenter | Summary | Duration |
| ------------------ | --------- | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | -------- |
| PM Friday Training | Kyle S. | This video is from a PM Friday Training that covers Discovery Topics and Nuclino Workflow. | 1:29:14 |00:00:09.220 --> 00:00:11.257 You guys like you know my job,00:00:11.260 --> 00:00:12.807 kind of bleeds into to a lot00:00:12.807 --> 00:00:14.258 of this stuff that y'all do.00:00:14.260 --> 00:00:17.236 So I wanted to kind of put something00:00:17.236 --> 00:00:19.380 together to kind of better define.00:00:19.380 --> 00:00:22.110 I guess the roles and responsibilities to00:00:22.110 --> 00:00:24.937 kind of round what I'm doing in discovery,00:00:24.940 --> 00:00:27.096 which you guys are doing in discovery00:00:27.100 --> 00:00:29.557 so that we come out of discovery00:00:29.557 --> 00:00:32.542 and in a development. You know,00:00:32.542 --> 00:00:35.384 hit the ground running type of situation.00:00:35.390 --> 00:00:37.889 Uhm, so this is just a really00:00:37.889 --> 00:00:39.994 basic overview of just very basic00:00:39.994 --> 00:00:42.760 of kind of each one of the steps.00:00:42.760 --> 00:00:45.987 Uhm, every single one of these steps00:00:45.987 --> 00:00:48.569 should happen for every single.00:00:48.570 --> 00:00:49.692 Project come with,00:00:49.692 --> 00:00:51.936 I guess the exception of design.00:00:51.940 --> 00:00:54.640 If it's just an integration project.00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:56.542 Uhm? But yeah,00:00:56.542 --> 00:01:00.346 starts with the handoff from sales00:01:00.350 --> 00:01:02.970 goes to the project kickoff.00:01:02.970 --> 00:01:04.858 So it's the first meeting with the client,00:01:04.860 --> 00:01:07.840 where I usually make the IW web00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:10.000 strategy call if applicable.00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:11.304 Sometimes the client doesn't00:01:11.304 --> 00:01:12.934 have a web strategy call.00:01:12.940 --> 00:01:14.020 What is that?00:01:14.020 --> 00:01:17.829 So you here I'll get down to the second OK,00:01:17.830 --> 00:01:19.206 OK, yeah, yeah here.00:01:19.206 --> 00:01:20.582 Let's actually run through00:01:20.582 --> 00:01:21.680 these really quick.00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:23.976 So each one of these sections kinds00:01:23.976 --> 00:01:26.457 of kind of explains what the process00:01:26.457 --> 00:01:29.100 is for each one of these steps.00:01:29.100 --> 00:01:31.038 So the project handoff is the00:01:31.038 --> 00:01:33.194 first thing for any new client00:01:33.194 --> 00:01:34.778 coming down the pipeline.00:01:34.780 --> 00:01:36.405 Basically we need to use00:01:36.405 --> 00:01:37.380 those initial estimations.00:01:37.380 --> 00:01:39.590 So the spreadsheet that the00:01:39.590 --> 00:01:41.358 sales team put together.00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:42.753 And basically get a punch list together00:01:42.753 --> 00:01:44.319 of all the items that we're going00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:45.705 to be doing all the customizations,00:01:45.710 --> 00:01:46.374 the features.00:01:46.374 --> 00:01:48.698 What did sales talk to them about?00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:53.857 The BA and the PM would both attend this00:01:53.857 --> 00:01:56.186 meeting for Project Handoff with the00:01:56.186 --> 00:01:59.245 sales team member Ann and review all of00:01:59.245 --> 00:02:01.140 the documents reveal the estimations00:02:01.215 --> 00:02:04.008 and it's going to be our responsibility00:02:04.008 --> 00:02:06.022 to document basically a description00:02:06.022 --> 00:02:07.887 of what the clients expectation00:02:07.887 --> 00:02:10.070 is for each one of those things,00:02:10.070 --> 00:02:12.824 just so that when we go into that project00:02:12.824 --> 00:02:15.393 kickoff meeting if they bring something up.00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:16.376 Uh, we're like, wait,00:02:16.376 --> 00:02:18.240 what's that about and they're like Oh well,00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:21.175 I explained all of this to sales. Uhm,00:02:21.175 --> 00:02:23.380 you know it's just having that knowledge.00:02:23.380 --> 00:02:25.260 There goes a long way 'cause you can00:02:25.260 --> 00:02:27.315 just pick up right where sales left off.00:02:27.320 --> 00:02:29.525 You know exactly what their expectation is.00:02:29.530 --> 00:02:32.477 You know exactly what they're talking about.00:02:32.480 --> 00:02:36.330 Uhm? So that's the first first step.00:02:36.330 --> 00:02:38.448 There's the handoff.00:02:38.450 --> 00:02:40.220 Uhm, so usually right after handoff00:02:40.220 --> 00:02:42.640 I can go ahead and create the IW so00:02:42.640 --> 00:02:44.783 all my 00:02:44.783 --> 00:02:46.890 the sales guys along with the initial00:02:46.890 --> 00:02:47.828 estimation spreadsheet,00:02:47.828 --> 00:02:51.580 I can go ahead and put together just00:02:51.661 --> 00:02:54.319 a baseline IAW blank user stories.00:02:54.320 --> 00:02:56.008 Just until I can kind of get the00:02:56.008 --> 00:02:57.335 client specific 00:02:57.335 --> 00:02:58.410 run through it with them.00:03:00.720 --> 00:03:03.198 Uhm, so we're going to Add all00:03:03.198 --> 00:03:05.436 that information in a during.00:03:05.436 --> 00:03:08.376 Usually during the project kickoff,00:03:08.380 --> 00:03:10.612 but sometimes it's better to have00:03:10.612 --> 00:03:12.729 that all done beforehand just so00:03:12.729 --> 00:03:14.675 that when we get into that call00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.560 we can take 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:20.736 Uhm, one of the big collets I have00:03:20.736 --> 00:03:23.519 here just on the IW in general.00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:26.789 Uhm, just as the be a member,00:03:26.790 --> 00:03:28.575 we're going to basically document00:03:28.575 --> 00:03:30.811 the scope as much as possible00:03:30.811 --> 00:03:32.726 with the discovery that has00:03:32.726 --> 00:03:34.860 been allotted for the project.00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:37.206 So that's where the initial estimation00:03:37.206 --> 00:03:39.707 comes into play because you have to00:03:39.707 --> 00:03:41.737 be mindful of not going over that.00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:44.645 And if we do go over that,00:03:44.650 --> 00:03:46.598 you guys will need to, you know,00:03:46.598 --> 00:03:48.212 reach out to the client and00:03:48.212 --> 00:03:49.919 let them know the situation.00:03:49.920 --> 00:03:52.458 Hey, we're going to go over a little bit,00:03:52.460 --> 00:03:53.390 but there's still some things00:03:53.390 --> 00:03:54.320 we need to work out.00:03:54.320 --> 00:03:57.450 Approved this extra time for00:03:57.450 --> 00:03:59.954 figuring these things out.00:03:59.960 --> 00:04:03.424 Uhm, just as a call out to that,00:04:03.430 --> 00:04:06.542 I do want to remind you guys that00:04:06.542 --> 00:04:09.579 that should also include design time.00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:12.548 So if we know that they're coming back00:04:12.548 --> 00:04:14.825 and forth with designs and there's00:04:14.825 --> 00:04:17.472 a lot of extra time that wasn't00:04:17.472 --> 00:04:19.800 allocated for because that does go00:04:19.877 --> 00:04:22.057 against the Discovery line item,00:04:22.060 --> 00:04:24.104 we need to make sure that we're00:04:24.104 --> 00:04:26.269 calling that out to the client ahead00:04:26.269 --> 00:04:28.392 of time so that they're aware, hey,00:04:28.392 --> 00:04:30.436 we only budgeted for this and that.00:04:30.440 --> 00:04:31.172 So sales handoff.00:04:31.172 --> 00:04:32.880 But this is going a lot over.00:04:32.880 --> 00:04:35.029 So how do you wanna handle that?00:04:39.900 --> 00:04:41.790 Sorry Kyle, back to you00:04:41.790 --> 00:04:43.240 and and know my fault.00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:45.730 So the the discovery budget time00:04:45.730 --> 00:04:47.936 is usually annotated inside that00:04:47.936 --> 00:04:49.820 estimations document as well.00:04:49.820 --> 00:04:54.140 Or do we always just throw a that amount?00:04:54.140 --> 00:04:55.220 No, that's a great question.00:04:55.220 --> 00:04:57.026 So let me actually go and pull00:04:57.026 --> 00:04:59.034 it up here and I'm going to use00:04:59.034 --> 00:05:00.960 CMA as kind of a Guinea pig.00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:01.750 Sorry PJ.00:05:04.750 --> 00:05:06.628 But I mean, we've gone through00:05:06.628 --> 00:05:08.504 that thing so many freaking times.00:05:08.504 --> 00:05:10.064 UM, so it's usually going00:05:10.064 --> 00:05:12.000 to be in proposals here,00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:13.832 and it's usually worksheets?00:05:13.832 --> 00:05:17.090 Uh, it's not in their scent.00:05:17.090 --> 00:05:20.186 I think we did remove these.00:05:20.190 --> 00:05:22.540 This might have been bad.00:05:22.540 --> 00:05:24.660 Yeah, the uh estimate should00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:26.780 be in the discovery folder,00:05:26.780 --> 00:05:30.206 but the, UM go to mask.00:05:35.370 --> 00:05:35.750 Ah.00:05:37.770 --> 00:05:40.960 Yep, angry little and then it's 177 one.00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:45.680 Gotcha, so this one is the RE estimates00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:49.190 one I was looking for the initial OA.00:05:51.750 --> 00:05:53.532 I can use this one is I mean fool?00:05:53.540 --> 00:05:55.787 I mean basically this is going to00:05:55.787 --> 00:05:58.331 be the same exact thing as what we00:05:58.331 --> 00:06:01.079 get out of the gate so we can see00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:03.221 here how much time did they give00:06:03.221 --> 00:06:05.126 for discovery for this project.00:06:07.540 --> 00:06:08.986 And then usually in re estimations.00:06:08.990 --> 00:06:10.500 Over here we you know,00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:13.260 say what we actually spent on those things.00:06:13.260 --> 00:06:15.556 So we can see here we went over00:06:15.556 --> 00:06:18.233 quite a bit on CMA just 'cause00:06:18.233 --> 00:06:19.853 their designs through pretty00:06:19.853 --> 00:06:22.396 big range in the user dashboard.00:06:22.400 --> 00:06:23.800 And I had to spend a lot more00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:24.989 time in discovery figuring out00:06:24.989 --> 00:06:26.816 how much that was going to cost.00:06:26.820 --> 00:06:30.520 And that's why we have three different.00:06:30.520 --> 00:06:34.070 Sets of estimations for them.00:06:34.070 --> 00:06:37.610 But, uh, the other alternative thing00:06:37.610 --> 00:06:40.581 I will say is if they don't want00:06:40.581 --> 00:06:42.867 to pay for more Discovery time.00:06:42.870 --> 00:06:45.420 We at least need approval to00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:47.610 go into development with them,00:06:47.610 --> 00:06:49.240 knowing that there's gaps in00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:51.124 information like we were going to00:06:51.124 --> 00:06:52.841 have to go back and figure this00:06:52.841 --> 00:06:54.683 stuff out and it could potentially00:06:54.683 --> 00:06:56.666 impact your timeline and your budget.00:06:56.670 --> 00:07:00.450 Uhm, but we definitely need that verbal,00:07:00.450 --> 00:07:01.262 you know,00:07:01.262 --> 00:07:05.130 approval of you know you guys can go ahead.00:07:05.130 --> 00:07:06.243 I know I have some more stuff00:07:06.243 --> 00:07:07.000 to get you later.00:07:10.500 --> 00:07:12.061 So this is the web strategy column00:07:12.061 --> 00:07:13.800 when you were asking about Santiago.00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:15.774 So uhm, the sales and marketing team00:07:15.774 --> 00:07:18.099 and I put will sometimes do this.00:07:18.100 --> 00:07:21.358 'cause I don't think every client00:07:21.358 --> 00:07:23.299 wants to have that meeting.00:07:23.299 --> 00:07:25.280 They kind of already have their stuff00:07:25.331 --> 00:07:27.147 figured out or we're just not on it.00:07:27.150 --> 00:07:28.560 And I don't think it.00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:30.588 I don't think we.00:07:30.590 --> 00:07:32.470 You are aware of it.00:07:32.470 --> 00:07:34.336 But we should definitely be on00:07:34.336 --> 00:07:36.469 that call and then this meeting.00:07:36.470 --> 00:07:39.921 Umran will usually go through his worksheet00:07:39.921 --> 00:07:42.115 with them and it's like the desired00:07:42.115 --> 00:07:44.027 look and feel and kind of purpose of00:07:44.027 --> 00:07:46.050 the website like I want it to be clean.00:07:46.050 --> 00:07:47.881 I wanted to be sleek, easy to use.00:07:47.881 --> 00:07:50.453 It's going to be a B to C site00:07:50.453 --> 00:07:52.390 so it needs to be, you know,00:07:52.390 --> 00:07:54.630 a lot of flashy marketing stuff and or00:07:54.689 --> 00:07:56.789 it's going to be like a B to B side.00:07:56.790 --> 00:07:57.741 It's locked down,00:07:57.741 --> 00:07:59.009 it's it's very regimented.00:07:59.010 --> 00:07:59.847 It's you know,00:07:59.847 --> 00:08:01.521 by the book and it's going00:08:01.521 --> 00:08:03.387 to work a specific way and.00:08:03.390 --> 00:08:05.196 You know there's a lot of00:08:05.196 --> 00:08:07.009 different ways that they could go,00:08:07.010 --> 00:08:08.935 but it's basically ran feeling00:08:08.935 --> 00:08:10.732 out the client, you know,00:08:10.732 --> 00:08:12.658 getting all of their hopes and00:08:12.658 --> 00:08:14.474 dreams for the site, document,00:08:14.474 --> 00:08:17.738 and basically and kind of setting00:08:17.738 --> 00:08:20.590 their getting their expectations.00:08:20.590 --> 00:08:22.576 So it's a really helpful meeting00:08:22.576 --> 00:08:24.650 to be a part of and document,00:08:24.650 --> 00:08:26.470 because that it goes a long way00:08:26.470 --> 00:08:28.241 with getting ramped up on the00:08:28.241 --> 00:08:29.696 project 'cause you already have00:08:29.755 --> 00:08:31.369 that knowledge of who they are,00:08:31.370 --> 00:08:33.960 what they want and what they're expecting.00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:35.982 And the deliverable from that web00:08:35.982 --> 00:08:38.520 strategy call is just a Word document00:08:38.520 --> 00:08:40.395 with all those highlighted 00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:42.374 Or is it some type of like00:08:42.374 --> 00:08:44.099 wire diagram or anything or?00:08:44.100 --> 00:08:45.934 I'm gonna see if I have here.00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:49.046 I think this was, oh, that's the action.00:08:49.046 --> 00:08:50.856 That's a pretty good one.00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:54.060 Yeah, I think this is like the call.00:08:54.060 --> 00:08:56.538 Yeah, it's typically a Word document.00:08:56.540 --> 00:08:58.895 Umbrella usually follows a pretty00:08:58.895 --> 00:09:00.280 strict procedure, actually,00:09:00.280 --> 00:09:02.480 yeah, actually have what Ron's00:09:00:09:06.980 --> 00:09:09.549 Nice so like who's visiting your site?00:09:09.550 --> 00:09:12.268 Is it gonna be, you know?00:09:12.270 --> 00:09:13.618 B to B customers.00:09:13.618 --> 00:09:15.640 Is it going to be patience?00:09:15.640 --> 00:09:18.016 Is it going to be like a ordering00:09:18.016 --> 00:09:19.789 thing for pharmacists like00:09:19.790 --> 00:09:21.780 you know who's your audience?00:09:21.780 --> 00:09:25.389 Come see goes down through a few of these.00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:30.925 What they want from an analytics select?00:09:30.930 --> 00:09:32.594 Do you want to track these are the00:09:32.594 --> 00:09:34.098 things that we've done in the past.00:09:37.150 --> 00:09:43.438 Slick. Uh, main goals of the website.00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:44.765 What are your marketing objectives00:09:44.765 --> 00:09:46.640 and what are your sales objectives?00:09:46.640 --> 00:09:49.629 'cause sometimes those can differ quite a00:09:49.629 --> 00:09:53.813 bit of like you know who do you want to.00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:55.755 Like what do you want to market and who00:09:55.755 --> 00:09:57.678 are you trying to sell to type thing?00:09:57.680 --> 00:10:01.005 Uhm? But yeah, he goes through00:10:01.005 --> 00:10:03.376 a lot of super helpful stuff and00:10:03.376 --> 00:10:05.326 training during this entire call.00:10:05.330 --> 00:10:06.980 UM, it's just really helpful to00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:09.268 be a part of it and take 00:10:09.270 --> 00:10:12.230 Or you can just get this document from00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:14.478 Ron if you feel confident enough with00:10:14.478 --> 00:10:16.985 going through it and you know not having00:10:16.985 --> 00:10:19.708 too many questions or say if Rod has00:10:19.708 --> 00:10:22.000 already completed this prior to sales,00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:24.022 handoff and the meeting is not00:10:24.022 --> 00:10:25.033 something that's scheduled.00:10:25.040 --> 00:10:26.816 It's OK to get the documentation.00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:28.555 Otherwise it is an absolute00:10:28.555 --> 00:10:29.943 requirement for the PM.00:10:29.950 --> 00:10:33.134 To be on this meeting. Cool, that's great.00:10:33.134 --> 00:10:34.388 Write that down.00:10:37.170 --> 00:10:39.950 Let's see here. Sorry, uhm,00:10:39.950 --> 00:10:43.160 so missing no just may.00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:51.570 Before project take off. And which case, uh?00:10:53.650 --> 00:10:58.969 Uhm? Sales team, uh?00:11:08.530 --> 00:11:08.900 Then00:11:15.560 --> 00:11:16.694 so project kickoff.00:11:16.694 --> 00:11:20.086 I mean you guys know kind of all that00:11:20.086 --> 00:11:23.210 good stuff you guys do it all the time.00:11:23.210 --> 00:11:26.186 The one 00:11:26.186 --> 00:11:29.047 know usually I want my IW up and00:11:29.047 --> 00:11:31.587 running by this time because a lot00:11:31.587 --> 00:11:33.308 of times the they'll derail back.00:11:33.308 --> 00:11:34.950 I want to talk about this right now.00:11:34.950 --> 00:11:36.196 Or like, alright, let's talk about it.00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:37.096 And then I'm like,00:11:37.096 --> 00:11:38.740 oh I need somebody take my 00:11:38.740 --> 00:11:40.588 like other than just like a.00:11:40.590 --> 00:11:43.446 Usually put that just directly into the viw,00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:44.788 just as we're talking about it,00:11:44.790 --> 00:11:48.416 so it's usually just good to be prepared00:11:48.416 --> 00:11:50.443 for those situations where we get kind00:11:50.443 --> 00:11:52.332 of derailed that really want to get00:11:52.332 --> 00:11:54.496 into the weeds on something and you know,00:11:54.496 --> 00:11:56.194 we spend some time talking about00:11:56.194 --> 00:11:59.740 that during that meeting, but cool.00:11:59.740 --> 00:12:03.540 Come inside there, yeah, uh.00:12:03.540 --> 00:12:04.797 Typically the uh,00:12:04.797 --> 00:12:07.730 discover the kickoff call usually has a00:12:07.807 --> 00:12:10.411 lot of information that we're providing00:12:10.411 --> 00:12:13.620 to the client about their expectations.00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:15.900 If they do go off on a tangent,00:12:15.900 --> 00:12:17.678 it, like Kyle said it is OK,00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:19.666 but you have to absolutely documented.00:12:19.670 --> 00:12:22.220 But this is a great time.00:12:22.220 --> 00:12:24.484 From the very onset with your client to00:12:24.484 --> 00:12:26.986 set and manage those expectations of how00:12:26.986 --> 00:12:29.280 you're going to control those calls.00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:35.368 That's a great topic and I really want00:12:35.368 --> 00:12:37.204 to get into the weeds with you on that.00:12:37.210 --> 00:12:38.770 Let's save that for discovery.00:12:38.770 --> 00:12:40.499 What I really want to go through00:12:40.499 --> 00:12:42.451 is what we're going to be expecting00:12:42.451 --> 00:12:44.520 from clarity at this time. Cool.00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:47.589 Take the reins.00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:52.684 Awesome so I just did a section here00:12:52.684 --> 00:12:55.278 of what the discovery outputs are and00:12:55.278 --> 00:12:58.739 I'll just put my W here and this might.00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:00.654 I think we're changing this to00:13:00.654 --> 00:13:02.549 FSD just a functional spec doc.00:13:02.550 --> 00:13:04.848 But that's that's here nor there.00:13:04.850 --> 00:13:05.750 Uhm, I'll just put.00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:09.460 Uhm, So what?00:13:09.460 --> 00:13:12.770 That's going to consist of is the actors.00:13:12.770 --> 00:13:14.300 So give me all the systems.00:13:14.300 --> 00:13:16.687 All the people who are they and00:13:16.687 --> 00:13:19.300 kind of you know what they are,00:13:19.300 --> 00:13:21.088 the descriptions, what are their goals?00:13:21.090 --> 00:13:22.140 So if I'm a customer,00:13:22.140 --> 00:13:24.228 I want to be able to purchase products00:13:24.228 --> 00:13:26.197 and manage my address is if I'm safe,00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:26.940 I want to, you know,00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:28.905 process payments using this gateway00:13:28.905 --> 00:13:31.510 or if it's connect I want to,00:13:31.510 --> 00:13:32.920 you know, be able to sync00:13:32.920 --> 00:13:34.260 these records into the system.00:13:34.260 --> 00:13:36.524 Basically go through and just get a list00:13:36.524 --> 00:13:39.046 of names, who they are, what they do.00:13:39.050 --> 00:13:40.274 Or what they need to be able to do,00:13:40.280 --> 00:13:43.668 and then any 00:13:43.670 --> 00:13:47.870 Uhm? And, uh, that will primarily be me,00:13:47.870 --> 00:13:49.031 uh, or Brian.00:13:49.031 --> 00:13:50.966 During those first discovery calls,00:13:50.970 --> 00:13:52.330 that's usually the first thing00:13:52.330 --> 00:13:53.418 I hit with them.00:13:53.420 --> 00:13:56.199 Uhm, feature descriptions at a higher level,00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.769 so this is something new that my00:13:58.769 --> 00:14:00.950 kind of started to do for RO.00:14:00.950 --> 00:14:02.342 I think I did it for and then00:14:02.342 --> 00:14:03.199 a couple of others.00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:04.106 I kind of went into backfilled.00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:06.450 I think destination athletes another one.00:14:06.450 --> 00:14:07.460 But basically,00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:11.500 I'm probably going to team up with you00:14:11.602 --> 00:14:13.866 guys to write out these descriptions00:14:13.866 --> 00:14:17.040 so that both of us understand it and00:14:17.040 --> 00:14:19.497 were able to talk to those features00:14:19.497 --> 00:14:21.439 whenever we're with the client.00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:22.888 Basically the description should00:14:22.888 --> 00:14:25.060 communicate the scope of the feature,00:14:25.060 --> 00:14:28.119 like you know who's it used by00:14:28.119 --> 00:14:30.957 a customer uses this to do XYZ.00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:32.960 This is how it works in the system00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:35.116 and also just as a side 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.415 should probably also include what00:14:37.415 --> 00:14:39.251 other features whatever you're00:14:39.251 --> 00:14:41.067 talking about is touching because00:14:41.067 --> 00:14:42.723 that will kind of come up later when00:14:42.723 --> 00:14:44.196 you're trying to plan this stuff out.00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:44.682 It's like,00:14:44.682 --> 00:14:44.923 oh,00:14:44.923 --> 00:14:46.369 I can't put this feature into00:14:46.369 --> 00:14:48.165 the Sprint right now because it's00:14:48.165 --> 00:14:49.948 touching this other stuff over here00:14:49.948 --> 00:14:51.523 and none of that stuff is done.00:14:51.530 --> 00:14:54.203 So you're not going to be able to test00:14:54.203 --> 00:14:56.600 it should this section also include00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:58.700 some form of acceptance criteria,00:14:58.700 --> 00:14:59.828 and we're getting there.00:14:59.828 --> 00:15:01.286 OK, I didn't know if it was later down,00:15:01.290 --> 00:15:03.876 right? Yeah, yeah, yeah it is.00:15:03.880 --> 00:15:07.828 That's a whole other topic in itself.00:15:07.830 --> 00:15:08.351 Uhm?00:15:08.351 --> 00:15:08.872 So.00:15:08.872 --> 00:15:11.477 That feature descriptions and not00:15:11.477 --> 00:15:15.290 usually go in a feature in Azure UM,00:15:15.290 --> 00:15:17.170 user story descriptions and00:15:19.050 --> 00:15:20.508 So each feature is going to00:15:20.508 --> 00:15:22.290 have a list of user stories,00:15:22.290 --> 00:15:25.356 though encompass a single action as00:15:25.356 --> 00:15:29.640 part of the feature description as a whole.00:15:29.640 --> 00:15:32.262 Like the shipping stage of checkout00:15:32.262 --> 00:15:35.039 would be like a feature UM,00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:37.126 and then you would have multiple things00:15:37.126 --> 00:15:39.260 in there like the address selector,00:15:39.260 --> 00:15:42.518 the rate quotes those, those things,00:15:42.520 --> 00:15:44.200 that kind of are associated with00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:46.590 the shipping section, checkout.00:15:46.590 --> 00:15:47.400 Uhm?00:15:49.930 --> 00:15:51.130 And then the same 00:15:51.130 --> 00:15:52.410 just what other features00:15:52.410 --> 00:15:53.690 this user story affects.00:15:53.690 --> 00:15:55.754 So it's like you know what you have00:15:55.754 --> 00:15:57.969 to do before you can touch this.00:15:57.970 --> 00:16:02.114 Uhm, just a 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:04.744 Uhm, I've also gonna put all the workflows,00:16:04.750 --> 00:16:07.466 the happy path workflows in the in00:16:07.466 --> 00:16:09.036 the documentation, so I'll usually00:16:09.036 --> 00:16:10.608 go through that with the client.00:16:10.610 --> 00:16:12.706 I'll do like a web sequence diagram or00:16:12.706 --> 00:16:15.098 a text to grafo or something like that00:16:15.100 --> 00:16:18.019 to capture what their expectation is for00:16:18.019 --> 00:16:20.806 whoever is going to be on their site,00:16:20.810 --> 00:16:22.146 what they need to be able to do,00:16:22.150 --> 00:16:24.348 and how they're going to do it.00:16:24.350 --> 00:16:26.520 Uhm? Generally those happy path00:16:26.520 --> 00:16:29.641 workflows are going to be from the00:16:29.641 --> 00:16:31.816 perspective of the single user,00:16:31.820 --> 00:16:34.439 but those single users are also going to be00:16:34.439 --> 00:16:36.320 interacting with other users and systems.00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:37.979 So like if it's a quote scenario,00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:40.404 it's from the perspective of the00:16:40.404 --> 00:16:42.560 customer until I submit that quote,00:16:42.560 --> 00:16:45.380 then an admin is going to come in review it,00:16:45.380 --> 00:16:46.492 approve it, deny it,00:16:46.492 --> 00:16:48.160 do whatever they need to do,00:16:48.160 --> 00:16:50.440 and then it goes back to the user.00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:52.950 Uhm so.00:16:52.950 --> 00:16:55.284 A 00:16:55.284 --> 00:16:58.356 potentially be a lot of sub workflows00:16:58.356 --> 00:17:00.736 could get hairy really quick.00:17:00.740 --> 00:17:02.954 Uhm, depending on how far down00:17:02.954 --> 00:17:05.320 the rabbit hole you want to go.00:17:05.320 --> 00:17:05.816 Uhm,00:17:05.816 --> 00:17:08.792 so basically this is something I00:17:08.792 --> 00:17:11.760 think we're just as a be a team.00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:13.938 Brian and I are going to get better about00:17:13.938 --> 00:17:15.998 is just identifying which features.00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.608 Dictate a lot of you know sub workflows00:17:18.608 --> 00:17:21.095 'cause that you know is going to require00:17:21.095 --> 00:17:23.429 a little bit more discovery budget.00:17:23.430 --> 00:17:24.240 If we start,00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.130 you know getting really down in the00:17:26.186 --> 00:17:28.468 weeds on something instead of you know00:17:28.468 --> 00:17:30.313 using broad strokes to just try to00:17:30.313 --> 00:17:34.050 get as much as we can figure it out.00:17:34.050 --> 00:17:34.820 Uhm?00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.968 Hey Kyle. Yo Seth, he's got a hand00:17:40.968 --> 00:17:42.434 up and I'm gonna let her go first.00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:44.200 And then I have a question after her.00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:49.220 She's do it so on the getting into the weeds,00:17:49.220 --> 00:17:52.335 on particular workflows and as00:17:52.335 --> 00:17:56.130 far as that works within self.00:17:56.130 --> 00:17:58.090 From the PM perspective,00:17:58.090 --> 00:18:02.358 and I know that this is a giant ask.00:18:02.360 --> 00:18:07.104 But I would like to see the project00:18:07.104 --> 00:18:10.740 management team has a understanding.00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:13.911 Of how each feature within Seth impacts00:18:13.911 --> 00:18:16.385 other features so that we don't00:18:16.385 --> 00:18:19.340 need to get too deep into the weeds.00:18:19.340 --> 00:18:21.097 We can take a little bit of00:18:21.097 --> 00:18:22.978 the onus off of the be a team,00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:25.242 and we can actually plan our00:18:25.242 --> 00:18:27.826 sprints based on that with an00:18:27.826 --> 00:18:30.306 understanding of the overall workflow.00:18:35.830 --> 00:18:37.306 That's my call that I'm done00:18:37.306 --> 00:18:38.308 now Daniel. You can have it.00:18:41.150 --> 00:18:41.879 Great call out.00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:48.854 Because if we get too deep into the weeds.00:18:48.860 --> 00:18:50.568 That's going to confuse the client in00:18:50.568 --> 00:18:52.349 the onset during the discovery process,00:18:52.350 --> 00:18:53.815 and can potentially cause the00:18:53.815 --> 00:18:55.690 discovery process to go much longer,00:18:55.690 --> 00:18:57.727 which would impact the budget as well.00:18:57.730 --> 00:19:00.994 So if we as PM's have better based00:19:00.994 --> 00:19:03.258 understanding of self features and00:19:03.258 --> 00:19:05.994 what all of those features touch00:19:05.994 --> 00:19:08.588 within the system itself, we're going00:19:08.588 --> 00:19:11.510 to be able to control a lot of that.00:19:11.510 --> 00:19:13.160 Millimeter exactly.00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:20.650 We got Daniel. OK, ah,00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:23.450 partly cuddle excited there.00:19:23.450 --> 00:19:25.578 The, uh, my question and this is00:19:25.578 --> 00:19:28.027 kind of more for the PM group as00:19:28.027 --> 00:19:29.872 a whole rather than break stuff,00:19:29.872 --> 00:19:31.531 but he threw everyone back,00:19:31.531 --> 00:19:33.086 hacking and coughing over here.00:19:33.090 --> 00:19:35.856 I come in July and I'm dying00:19:35.856 --> 00:19:37.946 because the transcript said Parsley.00:19:37.950 --> 00:19:42.540 Garlic cited. Ah.00:19:42.540 --> 00:19:43.950 Parsley, garlic, cider.00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.114 But uhm, so question though, so I know.00:19:49.114 --> 00:19:52.808 And this is the kind of more I guess that.00:19:52.810 --> 00:19:55.600 Theoretical or kind of a.00:19:55.600 --> 00:19:56.878 Or concept based.00:19:56.878 --> 00:19:59.860 Thing, so if it's out of line,00:19:59.860 --> 00:20:01.434 please guys all of you, just don't Dana.00:20:01.434 --> 00:20:02.324 Let's talk about this later.00:20:02.330 --> 00:20:06.495 Whatever, UM. Uh, what do you guys00:20:06.495 --> 00:20:11.076 think would be the right move for UM?00:20:11.080 --> 00:20:13.048 Uh, getting clients to00:20:13.048 --> 00:20:15.016 actually do this stuff.00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.742 Personally, I think that the the00:20:20.742 --> 00:20:23.203 project manager involved in the00:20:23.203 --> 00:20:26.017 discovery really needs to set the00:20:26.017 --> 00:20:29.020 expectations from the onset and you know.00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:32.128 In a professional and obviously kind manner,00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:34.220 yeah, this is your responsibility,00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:36.250 the same way we do with data.00:20:36.250 --> 00:20:37.402 This is data driven.00:20:37.402 --> 00:20:39.252 This is your responsibility, not clarity.00:20:39.252 --> 00:20:41.674 We drive that into their heads constantly.00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.802 We need to do the same thing00:20:44.802 --> 00:20:46.956 with IAW and discovery process,00:20:46.956 --> 00:20:50.640 and be like we we will not start this00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.664 until you give us XYZ or we need this00:20:53.747 --> 00:20:56.465 information and we really need to.00:20:59.030 --> 00:21:01.814 Provide it in the light that as clarity,00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:03.674 if we're going to be building this for you,00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.984 we want this to be as successful as possible.00:21:05.990 --> 00:21:07.299 But we're a team here and we00:21:07.299 --> 00:21:08.449 can't do this without you.00:21:08.450 --> 00:21:10.241 You have to drive this and we need to00:21:10.241 --> 00:21:11.827 start that from the very beginning,00:21:11.830 --> 00:21:13.342 which is a thing that I think00:21:13.342 --> 00:21:15.130 is kind of lacking. Yeah, sure.00:21:20.910 --> 00:21:23.496 Yeah, uh, I'm just 'cause I'm00:21:23.496 --> 00:21:25.700 just wondering about that like.00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:28.060 'cause I bet yeah, why don't bet you.00:21:28.060 --> 00:21:29.432 I would want it.00:21:29.432 --> 00:21:31.839 Hazard to guess and I bet Kyle,00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:33.584 Kyle and Ben both you00:21:33.584 --> 00:21:34.980 guys and everyone though.00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:38.498 But if it can't then if we made it a more00:21:38.498 --> 00:21:40.849 stringent thing in discovery like hey guys,00:21:40.850 --> 00:21:41.489 we're totally down.00:21:41.489 --> 00:21:42.554 We're going to start setting00:21:42.554 --> 00:21:43.480 up your environment,00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:45.298 doing some of that early stuff,00:21:45.300 --> 00:21:47.568 but look, we're just not going to00:21:47.568 --> 00:21:49.271 start serious development until you00:21:49.271 --> 00:21:50.956 guys give us acceptance criteria.00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:51.690 Like 'cause.00:21:51.690 --> 00:21:54.245 Is that not not the number one?00:21:54.250 --> 00:21:56.860 Ask from the.00:21:56.860 --> 00:22:01.520 Development team across the board and QA.00:22:01.520 --> 00:22:04.268 Take idea and data and honestly00:22:04.268 --> 00:22:05.642 it's industry standard.00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:07.066 We're not going to be doing00:22:07.066 --> 00:22:08.945 anything out of the norm if they've00:22:08.945 --> 00:22:10.420 been through any other process,00:22:10.420 --> 00:22:13.136 they're expecting that if they have it,00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:15.696 then we get to tell them what to expect00:22:15.696 --> 00:22:18.402 for all integrations in the future, Yep,00:22:18.402 --> 00:22:21.120 and make their lives easier in the long run.00:22:21.120 --> 00:22:22.860 Yeah, like we got no problems.00:22:22.860 --> 00:22:24.028 Clean up the environment.00:22:24.028 --> 00:22:25.196 Those mockups look cool.00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:26.079 No big deal.00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:27.837 But like before we start doing00:22:27.837 --> 00:22:29.887 any of this other custom stuff.00:22:29.890 --> 00:22:32.290 'cause it's I mean.00:22:32.290 --> 00:22:34.082 I know like a big project it's00:22:34.082 --> 00:22:35.804 gonna be a lot of user stories,00:22:35.804 --> 00:22:37.860 but I mean if especially if Kyle walked00:22:37.915 --> 00:22:39.803 them through like four or five of them.00:22:39.810 --> 00:22:40.900 Kyle, Brian, anyone you know?00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:43.450 Even a senior PM like what's00:22:43.450 --> 00:22:44.410 the acceptance criteria here?00:22:44.410 --> 00:22:46.026 If we just had some examples for it,00:22:46.030 --> 00:22:48.054 I can't imagine it would be too like00:22:48.060 --> 00:22:49.838 by four or five hours for them.00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:52.041 Sure, not a small lift, but.00:22:52.041 --> 00:22:54.596 If we're gonna be spending00:22:54.600 --> 00:22:56.360 10s of thousands of dollars,00:22:56.360 --> 00:22:59.380 I mean four or five hours is kind of a steel,00:22:59.380 --> 00:22:59.713 right?00:22:59.713 --> 00:23:01.378 And in the long run,00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:03.459 it's literally going to save that money.00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:05.248 And however we need to preface00:23:05.248 --> 00:23:07.381 that because when we get into a00:23:07.381 --> 00:23:08.841 point where we're three months00:23:08.841 --> 00:23:10.720 down the road and development,00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:12.864 and now we're going back and we don't00:23:12.864 --> 00:23:15.556 have the proper acceptance criteria for that,00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:18.094 and we're filing bugs left and right,00:23:18.100 --> 00:23:19.312 it's gonna end up costing them00:23:19.312 --> 00:23:20.340 more in the long run.00:23:20.340 --> 00:23:22.237 So depending on how we preface it,00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:22.982 we can.00:23:22.982 --> 00:23:25.579 Really like this is a easy win00:23:25.579 --> 00:23:27.717 for clarity as a whole.00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:31.488 If we manage that expectation from the onset.00:23:31.490 --> 00:23:33.038 Dude, how about this?00:23:33.038 --> 00:23:35.860 What if we just have like like?00:23:35.860 --> 00:23:37.630 It's kind of like the final00:23:37.630 --> 00:23:39.520 IW sign off or whatever.00:23:39.520 --> 00:23:42.104 No cousin Kyle Crick member on here would00:23:42.104 --> 00:23:44.327 if they changed the acceptance criteria00:23:44.327 --> 00:23:47.250 during or after the IW is complete,00:23:47.250 --> 00:23:49.180 would that change the IAW?00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:51.619 Yes and I will get to that as well.00:23:51.620 --> 00:23:53.300 I'm so sorry I'm totally hijacked.00:23:53.300 --> 00:23:54.392 Your stuff here man.00:23:54.392 --> 00:23:55.356 Oh no, you're good.00:23:55.356 --> 00:23:55.772 You're good.00:23:55.772 --> 00:23:55.980 No,00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:57.762 you're hitting some some good things00:23:57.762 --> 00:24:00.000 that word yeah needs to be talked about.00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:00.844 'cause yeah,00:24:00.844 --> 00:24:03.798 what about if we played this part?00:24:03.800 --> 00:24:06.500 Of a kickoff and like the00:24:06.500 --> 00:24:08.300 first discovery call when00:24:08.391 --> 00:24:11.036 we're introducing all of this,00:24:11.040 --> 00:24:13.976 what if hello? Hello.00:24:13.976 --> 00:24:16.694 Hello hello phone. Hey Santiago,00:24:16.694 --> 00:24:18.236 good to hear your voice man.00:24:20.430 --> 00:24:24.449 PayPal. But what if we just had something00:24:24.449 --> 00:24:27.240 as simple as a line of estimates are00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.548 not guaranteed for any feature that00:24:29.548 --> 00:24:31.718 does not have acceptance criteria?00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.100 I mean, estimates are guaranteed anyways,00:24:36.100 --> 00:24:38.886 but how could we weird something like00:24:38.886 --> 00:24:41.336 that like hey, just so you know.00:24:41.336 --> 00:24:43.450 Well, we try our best to get it, of course,00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:47.747 but you're looking at a 6X for estimates00:24:47.747 --> 00:24:50.303 estimates without acceptance criteria00:24:50.303 --> 00:24:54.598 will be padded by 30%. A 140% got it?00:24:57.940 --> 00:25:00.908 297%. I've always found the easiest way00:25:00.908 --> 00:25:04.180 to get somebody to jump towards doing00:25:04.180 --> 00:25:06.580 something is give them statistics.00:25:06.580 --> 00:25:09.316 Just be like, hey, according to you know00:25:09.316 --> 00:25:12.108 all of our projects that we've done00:25:12.110 --> 00:25:14.894 60% of projects that don't, you know,00:25:14.894 --> 00:25:16.807 get this out of the way right away and00:25:16.807 --> 00:25:19.503 being over budget you know what I mean?00:25:19.510 --> 00:25:21.406 Something like that. I'm sure we00:25:21.406 --> 00:25:23.260 could pull that information somewhere.00:25:23.260 --> 00:25:25.332 Yeah, yeah, exactly like this that every line00:25:25.332 --> 00:25:27.459 item that doesn't have acceptance criteria.00:25:27.460 --> 00:25:30.200 Goes over at least 130%.00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:31.344 Something like that that00:25:31.344 --> 00:25:33.060 hurts and people will be like.00:25:33.060 --> 00:25:38.589 OK, yeah, we we gotta do it then 630% got it.00:25:38.590 --> 00:25:40.948 I think that's a cool thing.00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:44.862 Yeah, I love that idea and that that00:25:44.862 --> 00:25:51.620 gives us as PM's a bit more. Uhm?00:25:51.620 --> 00:25:56.390 I I'm not sure the right word here, uhm.00:25:56.390 --> 00:25:57.926 Coming from a position of strength,00:25:57.930 --> 00:26:00.500 when we do have those change requests, yeah.00:26:03.190 --> 00:26:05.060 We called this out, Yep.00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:12.580 100%. Do you like it? OK bro.00:26:14.850 --> 00:26:16.740 Now let's now we gotta00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:18.183 actually happens, right?00:26:18.183 --> 00:26:20.107 That's the second part.00:26:20.110 --> 00:26:23.010 Pretty sure, uh me quick.00:26:23.010 --> 00:26:26.498 So I chat sorry going down that's it.00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:28.740 Oh yeah, you're good, UM?00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:30.864 So along with the acceptance criteria00:26:30.864 --> 00:26:32.790 that that's that's that's a great.00:26:32.790 --> 00:26:34.918 That's a definitely a big pillar of it.00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:36.540 But with that definitely00:26:36.540 --> 00:26:38.970 wanting to get their test data.00:26:38.970 --> 00:26:41.013 So like if we have a bunch of stuff00:26:41.013 --> 00:26:42.870 that we know we're going to need00:26:42.870 --> 00:26:44.718 to verify shows up in a catalog.00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:46.820 We want to make sure we have all that data,00:26:46.820 --> 00:26:49.270 or at least a couple of sets00:26:49.270 --> 00:26:50.320 of different products.00:26:50.320 --> 00:26:52.680 If there is multiple scenarios00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.380 before we get into testing,00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:57.020 like technically when the developers.00:26:57.020 --> 00:26:59.743 For creating the features they they should00:26:59.743 --> 00:27:02.672 be verifying their code is working with the00:27:02.672 --> 00:27:05.199 the products that the client provided us.00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:07.285 UM, usually my workflows can00:27:07.285 --> 00:27:10.250 be used as the test scenario,00:27:10.250 --> 00:27:11.780 like this is the basic.00:27:11.780 --> 00:27:13.340 You know it's not going to be a00:27:13.340 --> 00:27:14.937 super in depth test scenario where00:27:14.937 --> 00:27:16.665 it might be could potentially be,00:27:16.670 --> 00:27:19.946 but that can be used to walk00:27:19.946 --> 00:27:21.350 through the workflow.00:27:21.350 --> 00:27:22.331 And then yeah,00:27:22.331 --> 00:27:24.293 the acceptance criteria of course come00:27:24.293 --> 00:27:26.625 and basically this is the out of both.00:27:26.630 --> 00:27:28.850 You just Google acceptance criteria.00:27:28.850 --> 00:27:30.677 This is literally what it gives you,00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:32.440 and it's the conditions that00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:34.200 a software product must meet.00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.168 To be accepted by user at00:27:36.168 --> 00:27:37.480 customer or other system,00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:39.916 it's unique for each user story00:27:39.916 --> 00:27:42.116 and define the feature behavior00:27:42.116 --> 00:27:44.426 from the end users perspective.00:27:44.430 --> 00:27:44.917 So.00:27:44.917 --> 00:27:49.300 Let's say a user story is as a user.00:27:49.300 --> 00:27:50.749 I want to click this button so00:27:50.749 --> 00:27:51.940 that this happens on the page.00:27:51.940 --> 00:27:53.396 The acceptance criteria is,00:27:53.396 --> 00:27:56.140 as a user can click that button.00:27:56.140 --> 00:27:56.441 I,00:27:56.441 --> 00:27:58.247 as a user should see the00:27:58.247 --> 00:27:59.870 modal popup on the page.00:28:02.180 --> 00:28:03.762 And then that modal I should see00:28:03.762 --> 00:28:05.804 you know if the model is actually a00:28:05.804 --> 00:28:07.724 different user story and be like OK as00:28:07.724 --> 00:28:09.704 a user I want to see this this, this,00:28:09.704 --> 00:28:12.224 this and on that modal just so that when00:28:12.224 --> 00:28:13.780 we're going through QA we can verify.00:28:13.780 --> 00:28:14.482 Alright, awesome.00:28:14.482 --> 00:28:16.237 It's doing everything that they00:28:16.237 --> 00:28:19.870 said they wanted it to do. Uhm?00:28:19.870 --> 00:28:22.726 So that's kind of the call out there,00:28:22.730 --> 00:28:25.495 and this is also the 00:28:25.495 --> 00:28:28.850 just hounding the client like.00:28:28.850 --> 00:28:30.675 It's like it'll be y'all's00:28:30.675 --> 00:28:32.890 responsibility to keep up with them,00:28:32.890 --> 00:28:35.110 making sure that they get that00:28:35.110 --> 00:28:37.029 information and being very explicit00:28:37.029 --> 00:28:39.338 about you know you can't guarantee00:28:39.338 --> 00:28:41.066 something's going to, you know,00:28:41.066 --> 00:28:42.406 meet all of your expectations.00:28:42.410 --> 00:28:46.575 If you never write down your expectations.00:28:46.580 --> 00:28:49.520 But there is a template for the00:28:49.520 --> 00:28:52.156 kickoff call and that very definition00:28:52.156 --> 00:28:54.850 of acceptance criteria needs to be00:28:54.929 --> 00:28:57.484 in that template and called out to00:28:57.484 --> 00:29:00.030 the client on that kickoff call.00:29:00.030 --> 00:29:00.890 I concur.00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:08.955 Here I can I can can you00:29:08.955 --> 00:29:11.090 make a comment, yeah.00:29:21.290 --> 00:29:22.478 Perfect thank you Sir.00:29:25.660 --> 00:29:28.810 Uhm, and then optional test scenarios.00:29:28.810 --> 00:29:33.166 So I put this one in for the companion00:29:33.166 --> 00:29:35.115 situation of like literally there could00:29:35.115 --> 00:29:36.903 be 1000 different scenarios of how00:29:36.903 --> 00:29:38.541 we could test this shipping provider00:29:38.541 --> 00:29:40.439 like like which ones are going to be,00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:42.990 which ones are going to encompass.00:29:42.990 --> 00:29:46.026 Basically most of your site traffic,00:29:46.030 --> 00:29:46.990 like which ones are,00:29:46.990 --> 00:29:49.503 we know we have to like get some budget00:29:49.503 --> 00:29:51.531 in there for testing this feature00:29:51.531 --> 00:29:53.674 specifically because it's going to be a bear.00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:55.340 It's better to know that.00:29:55.340 --> 00:29:56.640 Right out of the gate, so Christian00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.720 doesn't get a tick and said how not?00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:01.079 How am I supposed to test this?00:30:01.080 --> 00:30:03.320 Like how far down the rabbit hole do I go?00:30:03.320 --> 00:30:05.238 Like it's it's, you know you can00:30:05.238 --> 00:30:07.437 waste a lot of budget doing that.00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:10.490 Yeah, yeah.00:30:10.490 --> 00:30:13.172 And remember from the PM team we we do00:30:13.172 --> 00:30:15.964 have a limited line item for QA testing,00:30:15.970 --> 00:30:18.162 so that's important to call out two and00:30:18.162 --> 00:30:20.680 you also want to make sure that you're00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:23.970 communicating QA to your clients as well.00:30:23.970 --> 00:30:25.422 Just as a weird call out00:30:25.422 --> 00:30:26.390 and totally off topic.00:30:26.390 --> 00:30:28.598 But one of the things I do with00:30:28.598 --> 00:30:30.558 sypha because of the way that we00:30:30.558 --> 00:30:32.660 invoices that I include a set amount00:30:32.660 --> 00:30:34.718 of hours every invoice for Christian00:30:34.718 --> 00:30:37.426 for them to QA or for him to QA test00:30:37.426 --> 00:30:39.349 that sypha is paying for because00:30:39.349 --> 00:30:41.910 they're already so far out of budget.00:30:41.910 --> 00:30:45.166 But being mindful of that line item in00:30:45.166 --> 00:30:49.088 your EP for that client is very important.00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:54.344 And I know a lot of times that's00:30:54.344 --> 00:30:56.466 one of the first ones to sort of.00:30:56.470 --> 00:31:00.215 Get diminished if we're working towards you.00:31:00.220 --> 00:31:01.900 Know shoring things up and that kind00:31:01.900 --> 00:31:04.090 of stuff. But QA honestly is the00:31:04.090 --> 00:31:06.560 final sign off for the customer.00:31:06.560 --> 00:31:08.726 Saying that this project is ago.00:31:08.730 --> 00:31:11.088 And if we don't prioritize that00:31:11.088 --> 00:31:13.230 particular part of their budget,00:31:13.230 --> 00:31:15.060 then we can hand them something00:31:15.060 --> 00:31:15.975 that's thoroughly broken.00:31:15.980 --> 00:31:19.780 And that's not OK. Great call out, Yep.00:31:19.780 --> 00:31:21.376 OK, I've got back to you, Kyle.00:31:21.376 --> 00:31:23.880 I concur, I concur.00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.420 Uhm no, I know I'm about to one more no.00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:29.450 Get it go, I'll get it.00:31:29.450 --> 00:31:31.570 How did you do well,00:31:31.570 --> 00:31:33.721 I just have one and it's like I say00:31:33.721 --> 00:31:35.568 it's a one more which I'm we should.00:31:35.568 --> 00:31:37.210 We shouldn't do as much as we do have,00:31:37.210 --> 00:31:39.451 but just a kind of a call out for00:31:39.451 --> 00:31:41.220 our newer PM's or even people who00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:42.884 have been here for awhile and kind00:31:42.884 --> 00:31:44.144 of going through these things.00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:46.892 There is nothing worse than telling00:31:46.892 --> 00:31:49.471 a client something is done and00:31:49.471 --> 00:31:51.858 then having them look at it and00:31:51.858 --> 00:31:54.027 I'm seeing that it's not done.00:31:54.030 --> 00:31:55.954 Which means it didn't pass QA, it's.00:31:55.954 --> 00:31:56.298 No,00:31:56.298 --> 00:31:58.706 we should all be validating that ourselves.00:31:58.710 --> 00:32:01.447 Yeah, it's one of the like validate,00:32:01.450 --> 00:32:03.412 invalidate again and validated again and00:32:03.412 --> 00:32:05.388 then check everything around it too right?00:32:05.390 --> 00:32:07.385 So and validate it before the demo.00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:10.214 Even if you validate it the day before00:32:10.220 --> 00:32:12.054 you better pull that up five minutes00:32:12.054 --> 00:32:14.046 before and just check it one more time.00:32:14.050 --> 00:32:16.265 Anytime there is a deployment00:32:16.265 --> 00:32:19.029 there is potential to break a lot.00:32:19.030 --> 00:32:21.916 That's a call. Yeah yeah my point.00:32:21.916 --> 00:32:24.266 You know we have the QA budget and00:32:24.266 --> 00:32:26.499 then anytime if you don't do that,00:32:26.500 --> 00:32:28.750 anytime they see that QA line00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:30.122 item they'll do the old.00:32:30.122 --> 00:32:31.610 What do you even queuing here?00:32:35.560 --> 00:32:37.180 We've all heard that enough.00:32:37.180 --> 00:32:38.260 Yeah, I'm sorry.00:32:38.260 --> 00:32:39.739 Thank you. Call my pool.00:32:39.739 --> 00:32:42.108 Just got no, you're good.00:32:42.108 --> 00:32:45.424 You're good. Uhm, this is a new00:32:45.424 --> 00:32:47.090 section that we're putting in a well.00:32:47.090 --> 00:32:47.858 I guess not new.00:32:47.858 --> 00:32:49.950 It's just kind of I used the issues section,00:32:49.950 --> 00:32:51.642 but it's kind of hard going00:32:51.642 --> 00:32:53.470 through all the issues at one time00:32:53.470 --> 00:32:57.750 so it's easily readable in one00:32:57.750 --> 00:33:00.190 section of the IW down at the end.00:33:00.190 --> 00:33:03.034 So basically it's going to be00:33:03.034 --> 00:33:05.088 a collaboration between the00:33:05.088 --> 00:33:08.244 PM and I to call out.00:33:08.250 --> 00:33:11.220 I'm going to say the yeah.00:33:13.290 --> 00:33:15.718 Yum and then Dev.00:33:18.070 --> 00:33:19.900 Because developers during re estimations00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:22.449 should also be calling out major risks.00:33:22.450 --> 00:33:23.694 From a technical standpoint,00:33:23.694 --> 00:33:26.040 but we'll get there in a second.00:33:26.040 --> 00:33:27.846 Uhm, but basically we need to call00:33:27.846 --> 00:33:29.637 out and document all of those risks.00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:33.920 Anything that is a risk in their current00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:36.920 states or anything in their future state.00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:39.120 Requirements of like that could00:33:39.120 --> 00:33:40.880 potentially blow up later.00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.260 We should probably write that down. Uhm?00:33:47.290 --> 00:33:49.306 I think here it's going to be in the00:33:49.306 --> 00:33:51.350 issues section, so it'll actually say00:33:51.350 --> 00:33:53.620 what user story it is referring to.00:33:53.620 --> 00:33:55.216 That's where I usually write them down00:33:55.216 --> 00:33:56.714 initially, and then we'll aggregate00:33:56.714 --> 00:33:59.170 all of those into one risk section.00:33:59.170 --> 00:34:01.284 So basically master list of risks and00:34:01.284 --> 00:34:03.276 issues that you know whoever is going00:34:03.276 --> 00:34:05.620 to be reviewing it at a quick glance,00:34:05.620 --> 00:34:08.060 whether it's the client or Chris and00:34:08.060 --> 00:34:09.890 Kevin when they want to get in and just,00:34:09.890 --> 00:34:11.762 you know, do a high level of like what00:34:11.762 --> 00:34:13.808 are the things we need to watch out for.00:34:13.810 --> 00:34:17.090 Here we have it all in one place.00:34:17.090 --> 00:34:18.380 Uhm? Designs.00:34:18.380 --> 00:34:22.250 This is something you know everybody00:34:22.250 --> 00:34:25.912 has probably been through a couple of,00:34:25.912 --> 00:34:27.052 you know, design,00:34:27.052 --> 00:34:29.312 discussions and basically my role00:34:29.312 --> 00:34:32.884 here would be to Add all of those00:34:32.884 --> 00:34:35.410 confirmed mockups to each user story.00:34:35.410 --> 00:34:37.209 So for each user story or something,00:34:37.210 --> 00:34:38.374 we're going to develop,00:34:38.374 --> 00:34:40.120 have a screenshot of what that00:34:40.180 --> 00:34:42.500 looks like an and also assist the00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:45.088 designer and PM with all requirement00:34:45.088 --> 00:34:48.000 definitions regarding those designs.00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.680 The 00:34:49.680 --> 00:34:51.168 those designs are going to have.00:34:51.170 --> 00:34:52.682 Underlying functionality that you00:34:52.682 --> 00:34:55.276 didn't even think about when you were00:34:55.276 --> 00:34:57.428 a client was just so excited about the00:34:57.428 --> 00:34:59.830 way it was looking and they just went00:34:59.830 --> 00:35:03.961 off the rail and nobody talked about the the,00:35:03.961 --> 00:35:04.703 you know.00:35:04.703 --> 00:35:06.929 The elephant in the room about.00:35:06.930 --> 00:35:08.525 Yeah, that actually is probably00:35:08.525 --> 00:35:10.750 going to cost a lot of money.00:35:10.750 --> 00:35:11.094 Uhm?00:35:11.094 --> 00:35:12.814 Or it's just something they00:35:12.814 --> 00:35:14.190 don't have data for,00:35:14.190 --> 00:35:15.024 like Oh yeah,00:35:15.024 --> 00:35:16.970 I wanted to say the like dynamically00:35:17.031 --> 00:35:18.866 display like this information and00:35:18.870 --> 00:35:20.106 like as like something that they00:35:20.106 --> 00:35:21.740 would like to do in their business00:35:21.740 --> 00:35:23.258 but not something they currently do.00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:25.000 They don't have data for it.00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:27.450 Those are also things to just be00:35:27.450 --> 00:35:29.909 mindful of during those design calls.00:35:29.910 --> 00:35:31.878 'cause those all kind of affect00:35:31.878 --> 00:35:33.870 the budget in the timeline.00:35:36.890 --> 00:35:39.990 Uhm? Any comments on this?00:35:39.990 --> 00:35:41.931 I think we're good. Yeah, this is the.00:35:41.931 --> 00:35:43.459 This is the big one I wanted to get to.00:35:45.740 --> 00:35:48.620 So the RE estimations meeting.00:35:48.620 --> 00:35:50.264 With the development team or re00:35:50.264 --> 00:35:51.620 estimations from the development team,00:35:51.620 --> 00:35:54.008 rather a prerequisite for00:35:54.008 --> 00:35:56.993 this meeting to even happen,00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:58.980 I want to put in here that the PM00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:01.400 must create a ticket in the Sprint for00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:03.308 that lead developer to review the IW00:36:03.308 --> 00:36:05.606 in full so that they do not have to00:36:05.606 --> 00:36:07.720 read it for their first time during00:36:07.790 --> 00:36:09.848 that call and it's like hold on.00:36:09.850 --> 00:36:12.370 Let me read and they reading a paragraph00:36:12.370 --> 00:36:14.672 there and we're sitting on a call00:36:14.672 --> 00:36:17.419 wasting probably half of it which is reading.00:36:17.420 --> 00:36:18.856 Uhm, so we gotta.00:36:18.856 --> 00:36:21.954 I think this is something that would be00:36:21.954 --> 00:36:24.558 extremely helpful just for getting them00:36:24.558 --> 00:36:27.967 ramped up and for making that this meeting.00:36:27.970 --> 00:36:30.412 Less of a headache and kind00:36:30.412 --> 00:36:33.240 of a lot more streamline.00:36:33.240 --> 00:36:35.248 Uhm, and I have this here of like00:36:35.248 --> 00:36:37.069 setting up those review sessions,00:36:37.070 --> 00:36:39.415 so we're going to mobilize those developers.00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:42.450 Probably it has to be done at the very least.00:36:42.450 --> 00:36:44.578 Two to three days before the architecture00:36:44.578 --> 00:36:46.802 meeting to ensure that if they go through00:36:46.802 --> 00:36:48.480 this they they have their ticket.00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:50.146 They go through the IW and they00:36:50.146 --> 00:36:51.470 have like questions like oh how?00:36:51.470 --> 00:36:53.570 How does all this work in?00:36:53.570 --> 00:36:55.187 We don't know that until the meeting.00:36:55.190 --> 00:36:57.115 It's just going to push out getting00:36:57.115 --> 00:36:58.890 the estimations for that even farther,00:36:58.890 --> 00:37:01.150 so getting that information beforehand,00:37:01.150 --> 00:37:03.614 at least two to three days gives us00:37:03.614 --> 00:37:05.938 enough time to go back to the client,00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:08.110 get those clarifications that the00:37:08.110 --> 00:37:11.510 developers are going to need in the call00:37:11.510 --> 00:37:14.205 when we're actually tasking this stuff out.00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:16.178 And just make sure you know.00:37:16.180 --> 00:37:17.398 We're all on the same page.00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:20.816 Make sure there's no questions out there.00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:21.196 Uhm,00:37:21.196 --> 00:37:23.076 so I have the developers.00:37:23.080 --> 00:37:24.484 I think that we've talked through00:37:24.484 --> 00:37:26.297 so far for front end and back end00:37:26.297 --> 00:37:27.820 and then the the full stack guys.00:37:27.820 --> 00:37:28.948 So Eric and James.00:37:30.980 --> 00:37:33.530 So is there primarily who we're00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:36.069 going to be putting on those?00:37:36.070 --> 00:37:39.878 Dev review 00:37:39.878 --> 00:37:43.568 should leave when they're reviewing the IW.00:37:43.570 --> 00:37:46.237 They should definitely leave 00:37:46.240 --> 00:37:47.476 If any user stories,00:37:47.476 --> 00:37:49.710 you need more information or I didn't00:37:49.710 --> 00:37:51.887 do it clear enough like it's just.00:37:51.890 --> 00:37:53.438 There's some confusion there,00:37:53.438 --> 00:37:56.450 or it's like a data related question.00:37:56.450 --> 00:37:57.694 Definitely write it down.00:37:57.694 --> 00:37:59.892 We got to see those questions before00:37:59.892 --> 00:38:01.474 we get into that. That meeting.00:38:01.474 --> 00:38:03.203 Can I make a comment on that?00:38:03.210 --> 00:38:04.536 Kyle? That's a great call out00:38:04.536 --> 00:38:05.960 and what ends up happening?00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:07.472 Far too often is I'm the one that00:38:07.472 --> 00:38:09.049 ends up making all these call outs00:38:09.049 --> 00:38:10.770 in the very last stages when we're00:38:10.770 --> 00:38:12.318 really supposed to have this feature00:38:12.318 --> 00:38:14.100 ready to go and to show the client.00:38:14.100 --> 00:38:14.967 And yeah, no,00:38:14.967 --> 00:38:16.990 it's it's a big deal catching these00:38:17.055 --> 00:38:19.359 things early on saves and so much time.00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:20.932 So much budget and make things00:38:20.932 --> 00:38:22.710 run so much more efficiently.00:38:25.750 --> 00:38:29.860 I agree. Uhm, and the 00:38:29.860 --> 00:38:31.384 Oh, developers leaving 00:38:31.384 --> 00:38:33.670 Please make sure that you have00:38:33.733 --> 00:38:35.603 updated them or reviewed them00:38:35.603 --> 00:38:37.876 yourself to ensure that their client00:38:37.876 --> 00:38:40.207 facing before you hand that IW off.00:38:42.520 --> 00:38:44.608 Yeah, sometimes the free00:38:44.608 --> 00:38:47.740 head00:38:47.740 --> 00:38:49.693 Well, sure, and there could be a00:38:49.693 --> 00:38:51.439 lot of technical back and forth00:38:51.439 --> 00:38:52.859 in there that would probably00:38:52.859 --> 00:38:54.798 not be the most user-friendly,00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:56.582 so make sure that you are00:38:56.582 --> 00:38:58.078 reviewing the 00:38:58.078 --> 00:38:59.548 send it off to the client.00:39:02.010 --> 00:39:03.642 Yeah. Especially if it's00:39:03.642 --> 00:39:05.274 bad news about something.00:39:08.580 --> 00:39:11.891 A primarily along string or actual code00:39:11.891 --> 00:39:15.829 in the IW could get very confusing.00:39:15.830 --> 00:39:20.705 Yep, I agree. The 00:39:20.705 --> 00:39:23.943 there's not any 00:39:23.943 --> 00:39:26.499 after they have their review session.00:39:26.500 --> 00:39:29.512 I'm going to assume that they00:39:29.512 --> 00:39:31.018 understand everything perfectly.00:39:33.220 --> 00:39:34.500 Because there will be there,00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:36.299 they're going to be required to provide00:39:36.299 --> 00:39:37.992 those tasks and estimations for all00:39:37.992 --> 00:39:39.646 the user stories, and there shouldn't00:39:39.646 --> 00:39:41.218 be any questions going into it.00:39:41.220 --> 00:39:42.996 So if they there's no questions,00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:45.570 you know what you're doing.00:39:45.570 --> 00:39:48.330 Uhm, client responses and follow up.00:39:48.330 --> 00:39:50.830 So if they do have if they leave those 00:39:50.892 --> 00:39:53.169 in the IW up here this dev review 00:39:53.170 --> 00:39:54.946 We take those 00:39:54.950 --> 00:39:58.100 We get those follow ups before00:39:58.100 --> 00:40:00.960 the RE estimation meeting occurs.00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.738 And then we go and gather00:40:03.738 --> 00:40:05.127 those missing requirements.00:40:05.130 --> 00:40:07.846 So at this point the devs reviewed00:40:07.846 --> 00:40:09.270 everything they're ramped up.00:40:09.270 --> 00:40:11.258 UM, we got all the questions answered.00:40:11.260 --> 00:40:12.700 We're now we're going to start.00:40:12.700 --> 00:40:14.458 We're going to jump into it.00:40:14.460 --> 00:40:16.278 So this is going to be with the PM,00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:18.650 the VA and the lead developers00:40:18.650 --> 00:40:21.659 using the IW and all the designs.00:40:21.660 --> 00:40:23.660 Uhm?00:40:23.660 --> 00:40:25.780 My 00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:28.129 in this process as much as humanly00:40:28.129 --> 00:40:30.326 possible to understand the full scope00:40:30.326 --> 00:40:32.236 of what we're actually building,00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:33.720 so that when you guys take that back,00:40:33.720 --> 00:40:36.058 or when you guys have to create00:40:36.058 --> 00:40:37.940 the RE estimations spreadsheet,00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:39.669 you guys know it like the back00:40:39.669 --> 00:40:42.053 of your hand you were part of the00:40:42.053 --> 00:40:43.317 conversations you know exactly00:40:43.317 --> 00:40:44.788 the way it should work.00:40:44.790 --> 00:40:45.686 And you're you know,00:40:45.686 --> 00:40:47.370 kind of set up for success there,00:40:47.370 --> 00:40:48.090 UM?00:40:51.970 --> 00:40:53.978 So preparedness, uhm this00:40:53.978 --> 00:40:56.488 is just kind of another.00:40:56.490 --> 00:40:58.426 Sorry, do you have another thing on that00:40:58.430 --> 00:41:01.770 so I know you and I had kind of talked about.00:41:01.770 --> 00:41:04.590 UM, the RE estimates meeting being00:41:04.590 --> 00:41:06.470 primarily the PM responsibility.00:41:06.470 --> 00:41:09.014 I know in the past oftentimes the business00:41:09.014 --> 00:41:11.070 analyst has been called into those.00:41:11.070 --> 00:41:12.778 Did you want to touch on that?00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.435 Yeah, and sometimes you do need kind of a00:41:15.435 --> 00:41:17.940 super deep understanding of the project.00:41:17.940 --> 00:41:19.522 I agreed that I would love all00:41:19.522 --> 00:41:21.769 of you guys to have a super deep00:41:21.769 --> 00:41:23.279 conceptual knowledge of the project00:41:23.334 --> 00:41:25.056 and be able to run that meeting.00:41:25.060 --> 00:41:26.782 I just know it's kind of with00:41:26.782 --> 00:41:28.618 all the other stuff you guys do.00:41:28.620 --> 00:41:30.559 It's kind of a hard feat guys00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.160 to do that sometimes.00:41:32.160 --> 00:41:34.230 I would personally love that.00:41:37.190 --> 00:41:39.126 But I know how hard it can be.00:41:39.130 --> 00:41:42.238 Sometimes too, you know.00:41:42.240 --> 00:41:43.980 It's a lot of writing.00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:44.900 Definitely a lot of writing.00:41:44.900 --> 00:41:46.654 It's a lot of taking, you know,00:41:46.654 --> 00:41:49.707 writing down the tasks in a way that is00:41:49.707 --> 00:41:52.255 going to make sense to developers and.00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:53.721 Uhm, but yeah,00:41:53.721 --> 00:41:56.774 if you guys wanna tackle that,00:41:56.774 --> 00:41:58.430 that'd be awesome.00:41:58.430 --> 00:42:00.400 Daniel, what Are you sure?00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:00.750 Miller00:42:03.910 --> 00:42:05.998 I I think it's risky for00:42:05.998 --> 00:42:07.042 an architecture meeting.00:42:07.050 --> 00:42:08.646 Sorry, I know I'm not Daniel.00:42:08.650 --> 00:42:11.128 Oh no, no, no. Not necessarily.00:42:11.130 --> 00:42:12.966 The architecture meeting I want the00:42:12.966 --> 00:42:15.703 BA and on that I'm talking the RE00:42:15.703 --> 00:42:17.508 estimates meeting with the client.00:42:17.510 --> 00:42:20.210 Oh with the client, oh oh,00:42:20.210 --> 00:42:21.650 I usually don't do it with the client.00:42:21.650 --> 00:42:22.940 I usually hand that off.00:42:22.940 --> 00:42:24.389 I'm talking about just writing them down,00:42:24.390 --> 00:42:26.490 should be on their call for sure.00:42:26.490 --> 00:42:28.938 OK, cool, yeah.00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:30.555 Yeah, that's usually something and00:42:30.555 --> 00:42:32.730 and sometimes I mean the only reason00:42:32.730 --> 00:42:34.746 I have had to be on those meetings00:42:34.801 --> 00:42:36.897 before is where you know the PM just00:42:36.897 --> 00:42:39.858 needed some assistance talking to some00:42:39.858 --> 00:42:43.948 of the features like why did this go up?00:42:43.950 --> 00:42:47.686 Uhm, but you know the point there is,00:42:47.690 --> 00:42:51.610 I guess you guys should just know that then.00:42:51.610 --> 00:42:53.872 No like that RE estimates meeting00:42:53.872 --> 00:42:56.726 we should as PM be responsible to00:42:56.726 --> 00:42:59.510 know why this particular feature00:42:59.510 --> 00:43:02.270 went from 30 hours to 97 hours00:43:02.270 --> 00:43:04.550 and be able to speak to that.00:43:04.550 --> 00:43:06.962 Yeah, yeah, you better be able to for sure.00:43:06.970 --> 00:43:09.330 Yeah yeah it's our project.00:43:09.330 --> 00:43:12.768 Yep, not Kyles project although cloud,00:43:12.770 --> 00:43:13.687 we love everything you do on it.00:43:13.690 --> 00:43:17.897 Don't wanna it's by then it's ours.00:43:17.900 --> 00:43:19.240 Sure, well, not quite yet.00:43:19.240 --> 00:43:20.794 I I do have a hand off.00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.648 Yes, yes as well.00:43:23.650 --> 00:43:25.130 So preparedness is kind of00:43:25.130 --> 00:43:26.940 another disclaimer I have in here.00:43:26.940 --> 00:43:29.243 If a developer comes into that re00:43:29.243 --> 00:43:30.823 estimations meeting with no prior00:43:30.823 --> 00:43:32.951 knowledge of the scope or as you know,00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:34.772 asking like a ton of questions00:43:34.772 --> 00:43:36.559 and we're just getting a lot of,00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:38.640 you know we're not getting.00:43:38.640 --> 00:43:41.460 Uh, the estimations we need.00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:44.400 Uhm I think it should be the00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.245 PM's responsibility to basically00:43:46.245 --> 00:43:48.666 report that to their higher up.00:43:48.666 --> 00:43:50.538 Just saying hey we had to00:43:50.538 --> 00:43:52.038 reschedule to figure this out.00:43:52.040 --> 00:43:53.540 There was a lot of questions00:43:53.540 --> 00:43:54.960 during the RE estimations meeting.00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:56.090 Now it's being pushed out.00:43:56.090 --> 00:43:57.626 We're having multiple because00:43:57.626 --> 00:44:00.728 that is a lot of people on a call.00:44:00.730 --> 00:44:04.228 Let Brandon know if that happens.00:44:04.230 --> 00:44:06.477 Yeah, quick side 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:08.766 Is we're shrinking.00:44:08.766 --> 00:44:14.529 The RE estimations team. Two, just two.00:44:14.530 --> 00:44:15.930 Oh yeah, that is true.00:44:15.930 --> 00:44:17.049 That is true.00:44:17.049 --> 00:44:20.130 And now it's mainly for these guys here.00:44:20.130 --> 00:44:20.342 Yeah,00:44:20.342 --> 00:44:21.826 like they they are going to be00:44:21.826 --> 00:44:23.299 the ones responsible for that.00:44:25.970 --> 00:44:28.168 So yeah, that's that's a good point.00:44:28.170 --> 00:44:29.889 It's going to be a small batch of people,00:44:29.890 --> 00:44:33.410 but I think regardless, UM,00:44:33.410 --> 00:44:37.750 if there is any snags. Uhm?00:44:37.750 --> 00:44:39.696 And where did I have that here?00:44:42.830 --> 00:44:48.150 I do have it in here. Where did I put that?00:44:51.850 --> 00:44:53.800 Yeah, 'cause we will need to00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:55.700 schedule a follow up meeting.00:44:55.700 --> 00:44:57.820 To get that extra information.00:44:57.820 --> 00:44:59.896 Oh right, here it's you know.00:44:59.900 --> 00:45:03.500 If the if we if they can't provide00:45:03.500 --> 00:45:04.920 an estimation for something,00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:06.695 we need to document why?00:45:06.700 --> 00:45:08.704 So it's like is it 'cause00:45:08.704 --> 00:45:10.040 it wasn't explained right?00:45:10.040 --> 00:45:11.692 Or is there like just a gap00:45:11.692 --> 00:45:12.853 like that knowledge gap but00:45:12.853 --> 00:45:14.260 you don't know how to do it?00:45:14.260 --> 00:45:17.140 Or are we waiting on data from the client?00:45:17.140 --> 00:45:17.984 Kind of.00:45:17.984 --> 00:45:20.938 What's the reason we hit that snag?00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:25.640 And what do we need to do to move past that?00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:27.842 You know it's not really trying00:45:27.842 --> 00:45:30.039 to point fingers or you know,00:45:30.040 --> 00:45:31.648 put blame on anybody.00:45:31.648 --> 00:45:33.658 It's really just to keep00:45:33.658 --> 00:45:35.446 everybody accountable for you,00:45:35.446 --> 00:45:36.626 know, making sure that you00:45:36.626 --> 00:45:37.969 know if there is a snag,00:45:37.970 --> 00:45:39.738 we make sure we address it as quickly00:45:39.738 --> 00:45:41.439 and as efficiently as possible.00:45:43.570 --> 00:45:49.174 Uhm? So. Outputs from re estimations00:45:49.174 --> 00:45:51.610 when we are done with this,00:45:51.610 --> 00:45:52.860 we've run through all the00:45:52.860 --> 00:45:53.860 user stories we've got.00:45:53.860 --> 00:45:55.015 Everything tasked out.00:45:55.015 --> 00:45:57.710 This is what it should look like,00:45:57.710 --> 00:45:59.725 so the developers are responsible00:45:59.725 --> 00:46:02.170 providing those clear and concise tasks,00:46:02.170 --> 00:46:05.534 descriptions and the estimated00:46:05.534 --> 00:46:08.057 hours for everything.00:46:08.060 --> 00:46:10.865 Uhm, they should also provide00:46:10.865 --> 00:46:12.548 parallel development paths,00:46:12.550 --> 00:46:13.738 so during re estimations,00:46:13.738 --> 00:46:15.981 if it's going to be the developers00:46:15.981 --> 00:46:17.981 responsibility to call out features00:46:17.981 --> 00:46:20.633 that can be started immediately as00:46:20.633 --> 00:46:22.894 well as which features are going to00:46:22.894 --> 00:46:25.316 be blocked until other stuff is done,00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:27.624 like we have to do these initial things,00:46:27.630 --> 00:46:30.978 we can't start on any of this stuff yet.00:46:30.980 --> 00:46:32.663 This is going to be used by you guys00:46:32.663 --> 00:46:34.289 when you guys are doing your Sprint00:46:34.289 --> 00:46:35.909 planning for all the Sprint cycles,00:46:35.910 --> 00:46:36.966 so you'll know like alright this00:46:36.966 --> 00:46:38.269 is going to be my first print.00:46:38.270 --> 00:46:39.638 This is everything I can start00:46:39.638 --> 00:46:40.785 on immediately and then we're00:46:40.785 --> 00:46:41.907 going to move on to this.00:46:41.910 --> 00:46:45.694 You're almost phasing out your your project00:46:45.694 --> 00:46:48.616 at this point during re estimations,00:46:48.620 --> 00:46:49.508 'cause I mean.00:46:49.508 --> 00:46:51.284 Honestly, it's hard for you guys00:46:51.284 --> 00:46:53.187 to make those judgment calls.00:46:53.190 --> 00:46:53.604 I mean,00:46:53.604 --> 00:46:54.846 how would you guys would know?00:46:54.850 --> 00:46:57.840 How would you guys know how to?00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.940 What are the steps to putting00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:01.674 a car together like you guys00:47:01.674 --> 00:47:02.586 just wouldn't know that?00:47:02.590 --> 00:47:03.496 Like you know,00:47:03.496 --> 00:47:05.308 there's a lot of different moving00:47:05.308 --> 00:47:07.215 parts and you know done that so00:47:07.215 --> 00:47:09.231 many times where you know you get00:47:09.231 --> 00:47:10.771 something all put together and00:47:10.771 --> 00:47:12.540 you're like where did this part go?00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.560 Like I thought I was done.00:47:16.560 --> 00:47:19.300 Uhm, but yeah, it's just,00:47:19.300 --> 00:47:21.990 uh, just calling that out.00:47:21.990 --> 00:47:23.691 UM implementation options.00:47:23.691 --> 00:47:26.526 So for more complex features00:47:26.526 --> 00:47:28.020 that they're like, Oh well,00:47:28.020 --> 00:47:29.674 I could build it out this way00:47:29.674 --> 00:47:31.030 and it would be pretty ******00:47:31.030 --> 00:47:33.406 but it's going to cost a lot of00:47:33.406 --> 00:47:35.452 money and I was like, OK, well,00:47:35.452 --> 00:47:37.489 tell me what that's going to be,00:47:37.490 --> 00:47:39.106 and also tell me an easy way to00:47:39.106 --> 00:47:40.876 do it in case they don't want00:47:40.876 --> 00:47:42.570 to spend that much money on it.00:47:42.570 --> 00:47:44.610 Uh, so implementation options are00:47:44.610 --> 00:47:47.074 really important for you guys for00:47:47.074 --> 00:47:49.234 mitigating those risks of like hey,00:47:49.240 --> 00:47:51.385 this one is a risk, but that's OK.00:47:51.385 --> 00:47:53.990 We have options. We we have a different.00:47:53.990 --> 00:47:55.772 We have a couple of different00:47:55.772 --> 00:47:56.960 routes we could take.00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:58.226 And it will also depend on00:47:58.226 --> 00:47:59.070 where they're trying to.00:47:59.070 --> 00:48:00.807 If they have a phase two where you know00:48:00.807 --> 00:48:02.327 we're going to be doing other stuff,00:48:02.330 --> 00:48:04.400 maybe it's something but complex00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:07.260 featured gets pushed to a phase two.00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:12.784 Uhm so. It's just 1.22 point out there.00:48:12.784 --> 00:48:16.396 Uhm, risk areas in possible issues,00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:18.536 so that's also the developers responsibility00:48:18.536 --> 00:48:20.519 when they're tasking this stuff out.00:48:20.520 --> 00:48:21.036 It's like, yeah,00:48:21.036 --> 00:48:22.240 I can do this this and this,00:48:22.240 --> 00:48:25.720 but like it could break it this way.00:48:25.720 --> 00:48:27.100 Or like I don't know how00:48:27.100 --> 00:48:28.310 that's exactly going to work,00:48:28.310 --> 00:48:30.180 like it's risky or like00:48:30.180 --> 00:48:31.676 scrubbing data or something.00:48:31.680 --> 00:48:33.900 Or like you know.00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:35.868 What is it called scraping data off like00:48:35.868 --> 00:48:38.446 a PDF or something that would be like a00:48:38.446 --> 00:48:40.610 technical thing that like it's not going to.00:48:40.610 --> 00:48:43.676 It's not going to do it very.00:48:43.680 --> 00:48:45.130 You know?00:48:45.130 --> 00:48:45.575 Majestically,00:48:45.575 --> 00:48:49.135 it's just going to kind of do it.00:48:49.140 --> 00:48:49.418 Uhm,00:48:49.418 --> 00:48:50.808 so that's just something that00:48:50.808 --> 00:48:52.778 they also need to call out there,00:48:52.780 --> 00:48:55.586 and it should be added to a00:48:55.586 --> 00:48:58.566 information needs to be added00:48:58.566 --> 00:49:01.950 to the risk assessment section.00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:09.391 Uhm, so at this point we have all00:49:09.391 --> 00:49:10.659 of our implementation options.00:49:10.660 --> 00:49:12.436 We have our stuff that can be started.00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:14.420 First we have all the tasks,00:49:14.420 --> 00:49:15.884 all the descriptions,00:49:15.884 --> 00:49:17.348 although our estimations.00:49:17.350 --> 00:49:19.276 At this point I'm going to00:49:19.276 --> 00:49:21.683 hand it off to you guys. Uhm?00:49:21.683 --> 00:49:23.681 Once the PM you know understands00:49:23.681 --> 00:49:25.682 all the feature and task00:49:25.682 --> 00:49:27.080 descriptions and everything,00:49:27.080 --> 00:49:29.320 we just went through and re estimations.00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:32.050 I hand it off to you guys so that you00:49:32.126 --> 00:49:34.902 can go get final approval and get the00:49:34.902 --> 00:49:37.590 client to ultimately sign off on it.00:49:37.590 --> 00:49:41.118 Uhm, I'll say just be a basecamp or email.00:49:43.190 --> 00:49:45.702 No, it's like it's not like an actual00:49:45.702 --> 00:49:47.882 signature if they you know verbally00:49:47.882 --> 00:49:49.732 communicate that we can start.00:49:49.740 --> 00:49:52.275 Also lead Dev handoff to00:49:52.275 --> 00:49:53.796 the development team.00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:55.830 So this is going to happen directly00:49:55.830 --> 00:49:57.872 after the RE estimations meeting whoever00:49:57.872 --> 00:50:00.820 is going to be actually doing the work.00:50:00.820 --> 00:50:02.745 If it is not the lead developer00:50:02.745 --> 00:50:04.229 that actually went through it,00:50:04.230 --> 00:50:07.308 that lead developer must have a00:50:07.308 --> 00:50:09.147 handoff meeting to whoever is00:50:09.147 --> 00:50:11.444 going to be working on it so that00:50:11.444 --> 00:50:13.174 there's no questions about you00:50:13.174 --> 00:50:15.702 know well you know I didn't know I00:50:15.702 --> 00:50:17.843 was supposed to do it that way.00:50:17.843 --> 00:50:20.981 Uhm, based on the 00:50:20.981 --> 00:50:23.160 the lead developer left.00:50:23.160 --> 00:50:24.120 Like you know, we're not going00:50:24.120 --> 00:50:25.378 to get to the end and be like,00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:26.436 Oh well, why doesn't this work?00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:27.080 He's like I don't know,00:50:27.080 --> 00:50:27.910 I'm just gonna did it.00:50:27.910 --> 00:50:30.134 I thought I was supposed to do it.00:50:30.140 --> 00:50:32.300 Uhm, but it just wasn't what the lead00:50:32.300 --> 00:50:34.070 developer was actually saying to do,00:50:34.070 --> 00:50:36.900 so this is pretty important.00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:39.900 Gotta have that handoff.00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:42.540 Uhm, I put re estimation assistance00:50:42.540 --> 00:50:44.300 if needed on here.00:50:44.300 --> 00:50:46.388 Uhm, I know sometimes it's kind00:50:46.388 --> 00:50:49.369 of a bear to get all this stuff.00:50:49.370 --> 00:50:52.807 We just went through into a re00:50:52.807 --> 00:50:54.900 estimation spreadsheet in Excel.00:50:54.900 --> 00:50:56.725 Uhm, sometimes the line items00:50:56.725 --> 00:50:58.550 don't match up quite right,00:50:58.550 --> 00:50:59.970 and you know it's just.00:50:59.970 --> 00:51:03.090 It can be very.00:51:03.090 --> 00:51:06.625 Tedious so I can help with that,00:51:06.630 --> 00:51:08.565 but I have it here that you know you00:51:08.565 --> 00:51:10.428 gotta make sure we approve that time.00:51:10.430 --> 00:51:12.870 'cause that's technically out00:51:12.870 --> 00:51:14.700 of my jurisdiction.00:51:14.700 --> 00:51:16.282 But I'm happy to help you guys00:51:16.282 --> 00:51:17.628 on it anytime or you know,00:51:17.630 --> 00:51:18.282 answer questions.00:51:18.282 --> 00:51:21.230 Do whatever I need to do but I just00:51:21.230 --> 00:51:22.959 want to make sure I'm not spending00:51:22.959 --> 00:51:25.080 a bunch of time and wasting budget.00:51:27.100 --> 00:51:28.196 The call out there.00:51:28.196 --> 00:51:30.200 If you guys are working on that,00:51:30.200 --> 00:51:31.736 you run into problems.00:51:31.736 --> 00:51:33.656 Try to escalate to Ben,00:51:33.660 --> 00:51:35.640 Daniel or myself first.00:51:35.640 --> 00:51:39.844 Before we engage Kyle on helping us with00:51:39.844 --> 00:51:42.689 the RE estimations Excel spreadsheet.00:51:42.690 --> 00:51:49.150 Miller for sure. Uhm?00:51:49.150 --> 00:51:50.622 And then timeline creation.00:51:50.622 --> 00:51:53.515 Obviously you guys are going to use the00:51:53.515 --> 00:51:56.156 IW features and like the total hours, uhm?00:51:56.156 --> 00:51:59.804 From the RE estimations to create that Gantt00:51:59.804 --> 00:52:03.914 chart and I'll just put in here for sign off.00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:05.824 So this is a pretty important one.00:52:05.830 --> 00:52:07.062 There's three different sign00:52:07.062 --> 00:52:08.294 offs that technically happen.00:52:08.300 --> 00:52:10.658 It's going to be the scope.00:52:10.660 --> 00:52:14.740 Uh, the budget and the timeline.00:52:14.740 --> 00:52:15.829 Uh, so scope.00:52:15.829 --> 00:52:18.007 They have to give that written00:52:18.007 --> 00:52:20.072 sign off of the requirements00:52:20.072 --> 00:52:22.514 in the IW before any italicized00:52:22.593 --> 00:52:24.889 here custom development starts.00:52:24.890 --> 00:52:26.780 We can initially start with setting00:52:26.780 --> 00:52:28.406 up here environment and getting00:52:28.406 --> 00:52:30.541 connected up if they have connect and00:52:30.541 --> 00:52:32.489 start doing some preliminary things,00:52:32.490 --> 00:52:34.490 like maybe some config settings,00:52:34.490 --> 00:52:37.070 but we're not touching anything00:52:37.070 --> 00:52:40.776 custom until you guys verbally say we00:52:40.776 --> 00:52:43.896 everything we have the acceptance criteria.00:52:43.900 --> 00:52:44.726 And yes,00:52:44.726 --> 00:52:48.860 we're giving you the OK to start the project.00:52:48.860 --> 00:52:51.698 Uhm, if any custom development needs00:52:51.698 --> 00:52:55.527 to start before we have that signed IW,00:52:55.527 --> 00:52:58.022 we also need the clients00:52:58.022 --> 00:52:59.840 written confirmation that hey,00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:01.760 we're starting this,00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:04.550 but you have the understanding and00:53:04.550 --> 00:53:06.700 the expectation that more discovery00:53:06.773 --> 00:53:08.893 and meetings are probably going00:53:08.893 --> 00:53:11.013 to be required during development00:53:11.081 --> 00:53:13.295 so that we can finalize everything00:53:13.300 --> 00:53:14.675 'cause we haven't talked through00:53:14.675 --> 00:53:16.499 all of it in the IW yet.00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:19.804 Like we're going into it with gaps.00:53:19.810 --> 00:53:20.135 Uhm,00:53:20.135 --> 00:53:22.085 so the client must confirm that00:53:22.085 --> 00:53:24.163 they are aware that these new00:53:24.163 --> 00:53:26.227 findings or you know things that00:53:26.227 --> 00:53:28.448 change is going to affect their00:53:28.448 --> 00:53:29.892 budget and their timeline.00:53:29.900 --> 00:53:31.760 It's just it's it's going to.00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:33.496 We have to rework things or it00:53:33.496 --> 00:53:34.860 just maybe wasn't done right.00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:36.450 Like you know there's going00:53:36.450 --> 00:53:37.722 to be snagged there.00:53:41.410 --> 00:53:45.467 Uhm? And just a quick call out there.00:53:45.470 --> 00:53:46.550 I know it says it there,00:53:46.550 --> 00:53:48.899 but just to be a bit more explicit with00:53:48.899 --> 00:53:51.109 any of our newer team members here,00:53:51.110 --> 00:53:53.854 keep in mind here that it says custom.00:53:53.860 --> 00:53:56.659 So just in order to kind of keep the00:53:56.659 --> 00:53:59.704 ball rolling on a lot of projects, we do00:53:59.704 --> 00:54:01.480 want to do some of those smaller things.00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:02.564 Like I said earlier,00:54:02.564 --> 00:54:03.919 like setting up the environment.00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:06.530 You know, maybe if we have an app setting00:54:06.530 --> 00:54:08.697 situation in these kind of smaller things,00:54:08.700 --> 00:54:11.822 those we can get going if we00:54:11.822 --> 00:54:14.400 have the resources at the time.00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:17.640 Yeah. Thank you.00:54:17.640 --> 00:54:18.366 For sure, yeah.00:54:18.366 --> 00:54:20.060 I just know sometimes we're so hot00:54:20.111 --> 00:54:22.159 to trot get that invoice out and get00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:23.580 that development role in that you00:54:23.580 --> 00:54:25.772 know we kind of jumped into it totally00:54:25.772 --> 00:54:28.508 blindfolded and I'm just running were00:54:28.508 --> 00:54:30.998 just running through a dark room,00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:32.666 just trying not to hit any furniture,00:54:32.670 --> 00:54:33.110 you know?00:54:35.500 --> 00:54:39.494 Uhm? So. Uh, I think this is just00:54:39.494 --> 00:54:41.015 the same thing, saying that you00:54:41.015 --> 00:54:42.450 know if you just get it through00:54:42.503 --> 00:54:44.078 Basecamp or an email like yeah yeah,00:54:44.080 --> 00:54:45.088 just go on and get started.00:54:45.090 --> 00:54:46.651 I'm going to get you that information00:54:46.651 --> 00:54:48.575 or yeah, like well, we'll figure that00:54:48.575 --> 00:54:50.293 out that internal process, whatever.00:54:50.293 --> 00:54:54.024 Uhm, but yeah, we just need that.00:54:54.030 --> 00:54:56.980 Uhm, when new information is00:54:56.980 --> 00:54:58.750 discovered during development,00:54:58.750 --> 00:55:00.140 so one of these scenarios00:55:00.140 --> 00:55:01.530 has come down the pipeline.00:55:01.530 --> 00:55:02.362 When they say yes,00:55:02.362 --> 00:55:03.402 start on this right now,00:55:03.410 --> 00:55:05.300 I'll get you the information when we00:55:05.300 --> 00:55:07.808 get to that that custom feature when00:55:07.808 --> 00:55:11.216 we get that cut that information.00:55:11.220 --> 00:55:13.446 I'm usually not on that call00:55:13.450 --> 00:55:15.530 or in that email chain.00:55:15.530 --> 00:55:18.244 So it's going to be the PM's responsibility00:55:18.244 --> 00:55:20.326 to release that information to me,00:55:20.330 --> 00:55:21.740 or just add the information00:55:21.740 --> 00:55:22.868 straight to the IW.00:55:22.870 --> 00:55:25.620 I'm totally OK with that.00:55:25.620 --> 00:55:27.910 And then update any tickets00:55:27.910 --> 00:55:29.742 that that information effects.00:55:29.750 --> 00:55:33.134 So any change any new feature you got to00:55:33.134 --> 00:55:36.304 make sure we're going in and updating00:55:36.304 --> 00:55:39.369 things as they happen and then it's.00:55:39.370 --> 00:55:40.790 How it it should be?00:55:40.790 --> 00:55:42.128 Kind of close to real time,00:55:42.130 --> 00:55:43.306 but you know, well,00:55:43.306 --> 00:55:45.930 we'll see how good we can get it here.00:55:45.930 --> 00:55:48.429 Updating the II W as a PM.00:55:48.430 --> 00:55:50.905 Be sure to put it in the 00:55:50.910 --> 00:55:52.918 Call out the date and your initials so00:55:52.918 --> 00:55:55.150 that Kyle knows exactly when that changed.00:55:55.150 --> 00:55:56.326 If he has to go back through00:55:56.326 --> 00:55:57.470 and review it for any reason.00:56:00.180 --> 00:56:02.928 Or if it's a total new00:56:02.928 --> 00:56:04.760 feature or something addendum.00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:07.437 I'll put that in in here, uhm?00:56:07.437 --> 00:56:13.359 Addendum for changes and new features.00:56:19.070 --> 00:56:21.718 Slash changes and requirements.00:56:25.470 --> 00:56:25.790 Yeah.00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:36.760 Cool about that. OK. Uhm?00:56:40.370 --> 00:56:42.491 Yep, I I just have these very00:56:42.491 --> 00:56:43.910 basic callouts for budget.00:56:43.910 --> 00:56:44.963 For re estimations,00:56:44.963 --> 00:56:47.420 that's got to be sent along with00:56:47.492 --> 00:56:49.787 the I W as well as the Gantt chart00:56:49.790 --> 00:56:52.268 with the IW and RE estimations.00:56:52.270 --> 00:56:53.866 They kind of come as a package,00:56:53.870 --> 00:56:55.380 a trifecta if you will.00:56:58.660 --> 00:57:00.397 So this is where I kind of go into00:57:00.397 --> 00:57:01.730 change requests and addendums,00:57:01.730 --> 00:57:04.040 so if anything is added or anything00:57:04.040 --> 00:57:05.626 is changed after the point00:57:05.626 --> 00:57:07.754 where I hand it off to you guys,00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:10.442 it's gotta make it back into00:57:10.442 --> 00:57:11.783 the documentation somehow.00:57:11.790 --> 00:57:13.833 'cause if it gets down to the very end00:57:13.833 --> 00:57:16.279 and I'm just having a conversation with you,00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:17.828 know like a developer or with00:57:17.828 --> 00:57:19.266 Christian and they're like, oh hey,00:57:19.266 --> 00:57:21.160 how does this supposed to work like Oh yeah,00:57:21.160 --> 00:57:22.456 it's supposed to do this this and this,00:57:22.460 --> 00:57:24.266 but I didn't know about that conversation00:57:24.266 --> 00:57:26.434 you guys had with the client a couple of00:57:26.434 --> 00:57:28.388 days ago where they totally changed that.00:57:28.390 --> 00:57:31.050 And now I just sent to the00:57:31.050 --> 00:57:33.459 developer down the very bad path.00:57:33.460 --> 00:57:36.274 Or told Christian to fail something00:57:36.274 --> 00:57:38.600 that that didn't necessarily fail.00:57:38.600 --> 00:57:41.204 Yeah, there have been cases where the00:57:41.204 --> 00:57:43.357 information I'm looking at on deployed00:57:43.357 --> 00:57:45.307 user stories is not only lacking.00:57:45.310 --> 00:57:46.210 It's completely wrong.00:57:46.210 --> 00:57:48.010 Sometimes I've seen it where it's00:57:48.010 --> 00:57:49.804 actually the inverse of what they want00:57:49.804 --> 00:57:51.509 is currently stated on the user story.00:57:51.510 --> 00:57:53.652 So so so important to update the00:57:53.652 --> 00:57:55.510 user stories and documentation.00:57:59.540 --> 00:58:01.724 Yeah, I think that was the issue.00:58:01.730 --> 00:58:03.458 These these are just the 00:58:03.458 --> 00:58:05.159 we had from one of the other meetings.00:58:08.180 --> 00:58:10.812 But is there anything that you guys00:58:10.812 --> 00:58:12.949 feel needs more clarification or00:58:12.949 --> 00:58:15.739 anything that you know maybe need00:58:15.739 --> 00:58:17.997 some changes or what have you?00:58:21.150 --> 00:58:24.834 Kyle, there was a couple more UM documents00:58:24.834 --> 00:58:27.840 that you and CP and I had gone through.00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:29.952 Did you wanna cover those or are we00:58:29.952 --> 00:58:31.748 gonna switch over to get with Dale?00:58:31.750 --> 00:58:33.830 Uh, I mean, we could.00:58:33.830 --> 00:58:35.780 I think they're very helpful.00:58:35.780 --> 00:58:38.097 Let's hit those 'cause I wanna make00:58:38.097 --> 00:58:40.547 sure we have enough time for git.00:58:40.550 --> 00:58:44.132 'cause that one, although it's a00:58:44.132 --> 00:58:47.070 relatively simple understanding I mean.00:58:47.070 --> 00:58:48.710 I'm gonna ask you all the questions I'm00:58:48.710 --> 00:58:50.397 gonna make you do something and get bash.00:58:53.240 --> 00:58:55.620 I don't know if I could have.00:58:55.620 --> 00:58:57.174 File, that's the most relevant right now,00:58:57.180 --> 00:59:00.270 code complete. Yeah, this is important,00:59:00.270 --> 00:59:04.267 so guys I'll start off or Brian.00:59:04.270 --> 00:59:06.534 Makes these code complete.00:59:06.534 --> 00:59:09.020 Reports for everybody now.00:59:09.020 --> 00:59:10.958 Uhm, so everyone has insight into00:59:10.958 --> 00:59:13.597 this and they don't have to do the the00:59:13.597 --> 00:59:15.977 lifting that we used to have to do on it.00:59:15.980 --> 00:59:17.305 'cause Brian is helping us00:59:17.305 --> 00:59:18.830 out so please pay attention.00:59:18.830 --> 00:59:21.140 This will make sense now about those00:59:21.204 --> 00:59:23.080 reports he's sending out. Noise.00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:30.468 Yeah, I think this is the other one.00:59:30.470 --> 00:59:32.174 Yeah, these are the two that00:59:32.174 --> 00:59:33.980 we kind of put together.00:59:33.980 --> 00:59:35.188 Yep, both very important.00:59:35.188 --> 00:59:36.698 I think at this point.00:59:36.700 --> 00:59:38.639 Honestly I would start with code complete00:59:38.640 --> 00:59:40.677 and then we can get into calculus.00:59:40.680 --> 00:59:45.400 Cool cool OK so at the end of the Sprint00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:47.464 there will be multiple tickets at00:59:47.464 --> 00:59:50.018 the task level that will be complete.00:59:50.020 --> 00:59:53.030 When all tasks underneath a user story.00:59:53.030 --> 00:59:56.792 Oh my a are set to complete when all00:59:56.792 --> 01:00:00.498 these disorders can be been completed.01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:03.629 The user story is set to decode01:00:03.629 --> 01:00:04.523 complete status.01:00:04.530 --> 01:00:07.085 Tickets should only get put in the01:00:07.085 --> 01:00:09.449 code complete status when all tasks are01:00:09.450 --> 01:00:15.995 100% completed completed for the user story.01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:19.199 Once all user stories under the feature01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:22.219 have been set to code completes,01:00:22.220 --> 01:00:25.104 the feature will be ready to be01:00:25.104 --> 01:00:28.144 put through QA unless that feature01:00:28.144 --> 01:00:30.999 is dependent on something else.01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:33.778 Uhm, if that occurs and everything01:00:33.778 --> 01:00:35.167 is code complete,01:00:35.170 --> 01:00:36.598 you're ready to test the feature,01:00:36.600 --> 01:00:39.210 but you can't test it.01:00:39.210 --> 01:00:43.004 A block and an impediment must be01:00:43.004 --> 01:00:45.548 added to the user story that refers01:00:45.548 --> 01:00:48.119 to the feature or kind of what01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:50.064 the features dependent on like.01:00:50.070 --> 01:00:50.782 Oh yeah,01:00:50.782 --> 01:00:52.918 like this feature can't be tested01:00:52.918 --> 01:00:54.530 yet because of this user story,01:00:54.530 --> 01:00:56.259 it has all of this other stuff01:00:56.259 --> 01:00:57.489 that's going on with it,01:00:57.490 --> 01:01:00.910 so it this is blocked.01:01:00.910 --> 01:01:01.560 By default,01:01:01.560 --> 01:01:04.160 if this does not happen and you guys01:01:04.231 --> 01:01:06.359 don't block it or put an impediment01:01:06.359 --> 01:01:09.108 on it and it stays in code complete,01:01:09.110 --> 01:01:11.936 those tickets are going to be01:01:11.936 --> 01:01:14.968 pushed into QA 21 days later,01:01:14.968 --> 01:01:16.534 it's automatically deployed,01:01:16.540 --> 01:01:17.416 click updates there.01:01:17.416 --> 01:01:18.584 We actually changed it.01:01:18.590 --> 01:01:20.781 It's only 14 days now and this01:01:20.781 --> 01:01:22.929 is perfect timing because JG just01:01:22.929 --> 01:01:24.824 kicked over 100 code complete01:01:24.824 --> 01:01:27.019 tickets into my deployed category.01:01:27.020 --> 01:01:28.364 So y'all are about to have a01:01:28.364 --> 01:01:29.120 fun Monday with me.01:01:36.750 --> 01:01:39.102 That's that's that's my01:01:39.102 --> 01:01:41.454 exact reaction right now.01:01:41.460 --> 01:01:47.250 Ah, goo. Uh, all right?01:01:47.250 --> 01:01:49.058 Uh, let's see here.01:01:49.058 --> 01:01:51.318 Feature first development and QA.01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:52.856 So development should technically01:01:52.856 --> 01:01:55.596 be planned and this goes back to01:01:55.596 --> 01:01:57.792 the RE estimation part where we're01:01:57.792 --> 01:02:00.296 identifying what stuff we can start on first.01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:01.225 But that development got to01:02:01.225 --> 01:02:02.150 be planned out to her.01:02:02.150 --> 01:02:05.125 Each feature in the Sprint is testable,01:02:05.130 --> 01:02:07.170 so the PM should have that in depth01:02:07.170 --> 01:02:09.198 knowledge of their features to know which01:02:09.198 --> 01:02:11.420 features need to be worked on 1st and01:02:11.420 --> 01:02:14.048 when they're going to be ready to be tested.01:02:14.048 --> 01:02:17.012 There should be a consistent pipeline01:02:17.012 --> 01:02:19.738 of features every single Sprint.01:02:19.740 --> 01:02:21.190 And all development should be01:02:21.190 --> 01:02:22.640 tested at the feature level.01:02:22.640 --> 01:02:24.580 Once all user stories and01:02:24.580 --> 01:02:26.132 tasks have been completed,01:02:26.140 --> 01:02:28.905 this at least ensures that the client01:02:28.905 --> 01:02:30.879 has something tangible to look at.01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:32.596 They know exactly what was done,01:02:32.600 --> 01:02:33.820 they can see it working.01:02:33.820 --> 01:02:34.592 Uhm, I do have.01:02:34.592 --> 01:02:35.750 So I have the 01:02:35.807 --> 01:02:36.997 here 'cause I know this,01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:37.870 but somebody might be thinking.01:02:37.870 --> 01:02:39.298 Well it was all back end work.01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:41.541 How do I show that there might be some01:02:41.541 --> 01:02:43.317 sprints that are all back and work?01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:45.156 It's not going to be visible in the UI,01:02:45.160 --> 01:02:48.814 but if this occurs the back end Dev should01:02:48.814 --> 01:02:51.555 technically have a way to show their code.01:02:51.560 --> 01:02:53.144 Working up real quick,01:02:53.144 --> 01:02:56.015 it's just if I could chime in01:02:56.015 --> 01:02:58.040 on this because we've been.01:02:58.040 --> 01:02:59.160 We've been working on this,01:02:59.160 --> 01:03:02.086 but at like PM is collaborating with01:03:02.086 --> 01:03:05.960 the the dev teams and as far as01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:08.860 the feature based development goes,01:03:08.860 --> 01:03:10.960 part of what the devs are looking01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:13.794 for there is to have on a project by01:03:13.794 --> 01:03:17.560 project basis, kind of a uniform.01:03:17.560 --> 01:03:19.114 A idea of like what features01:03:19.114 --> 01:03:20.859 are being worked on in a Sprint?01:03:20.860 --> 01:03:22.932 Because so like let's say there is01:03:22.932 --> 01:03:25.269 a whole bunch of back end work being01:03:25.269 --> 01:03:27.122 done or I guarantee you that that01:03:27.122 --> 01:03:29.106 back end work is going to probably01:03:29.106 --> 01:03:31.143 tie into some sort of UI element01:03:31.150 --> 01:03:33.054 that then in most cases that are01:03:33.054 --> 01:03:34.744 front end developer could be working01:03:34.744 --> 01:03:36.376 with that back end developer to01:03:36.376 --> 01:03:37.857 get all of that hooked in.01:03:37.860 --> 01:03:40.476 So ultimately it could be can be tested.01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:45.058 So to solve that problem we're going01:03:45.058 --> 01:03:47.710 to start making sure we have these.01:03:47.710 --> 01:03:50.764 Road maps on projects we're going01:03:50.764 --> 01:03:54.967 to do one for athlete and be con.01:03:54.970 --> 01:03:55.744 Pacifically in.01:03:55.744 --> 01:03:58.840 Bro bro bro and bro two yeah yeah01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:01.971 and but The thing is is like on any01:04:01.971 --> 01:04:04.131 complex project going forward like01:04:04.131 --> 01:04:07.092 anyone senior on the team or hell.01:04:07.092 --> 01:04:09.556 I mean for that matter anybody who01:04:09.556 --> 01:04:11.802 knows of a complex project that01:04:11.802 --> 01:04:14.148 doesn't have a road map gets one.01:04:14.148 --> 01:04:16.180 Should be making sure that we get one01:04:16.237 --> 01:04:18.316 and this is not like an architectural01:04:18.316 --> 01:04:20.238 meeting where you know they have to.01:04:20.240 --> 01:04:22.216 You have to sit there and like plan01:04:22.216 --> 01:04:24.300 it out step by step by step it's.01:04:24.300 --> 01:04:25.925 It's literally like what can01:04:25.925 --> 01:04:27.550 we work on right now.01:04:27.550 --> 01:04:28.690 What feature specifically can01:04:28.690 --> 01:04:30.400 we work on right now that01:04:30.453 --> 01:04:32.371 will have the greatest impact on the01:04:32.371 --> 01:04:34.225 project and that they'll do that based01:04:34.225 --> 01:04:36.527 off of what was worked on in the previous01:04:36.527 --> 01:04:38.810 Sprint and the overall state of the site?01:04:38.810 --> 01:04:41.390 So the idea would be included in01:04:41.390 --> 01:04:42.565 their allocations we would get01:04:42.565 --> 01:04:44.178 on a call with the developer,01:04:44.180 --> 01:04:46.328 the senior developer on the project,01:04:46.330 --> 01:04:48.895 both front end and back end, and we would01:04:48.895 --> 01:04:51.040 all go through and look at the site.01:04:51.040 --> 01:04:54.423 The latest build of the site and01:04:54.423 --> 01:04:56.421 we would make sure that whatever01:04:56.421 --> 01:04:58.450 work we're putting into the Sprint.01:04:58.450 --> 01:05:02.650 Makes sense and is have in this heavily01:05:02.650 --> 01:05:05.914 focused on on on on completing a feature01:05:05.914 --> 01:05:09.736 so that it can be tested and and and01:05:09.736 --> 01:05:12.597 I completely agree with this decision.01:05:12.597 --> 01:05:14.679 This is something that clarity has01:05:14.679 --> 01:05:16.766 been kind of missing and we've01:05:16.766 --> 01:05:19.062 talked about doing this in the past.01:05:19.070 --> 01:05:20.774 We have our Gantt charts and and and01:05:20.774 --> 01:05:22.598 you might be thinking to yourself well,01:05:22.600 --> 01:05:23.560 what's the difference between this01:05:23.560 --> 01:05:24.328 and a Gantt chart?01:05:24.330 --> 01:05:26.276 Well there there there is a big01:05:26.276 --> 01:05:27.800 difference in the sense that.01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:30.648 The road map is essentially just very01:05:30.648 --> 01:05:32.556 specific about what we're going to01:05:32.556 --> 01:05:34.897 be working on in the current Sprint.01:05:34.900 --> 01:05:37.276 Fairly specific about what will come01:05:37.276 --> 01:05:39.727 after that and then everything else01:05:39.727 --> 01:05:42.895 after that is doesn't have to be perfect01:05:42.900 --> 01:05:44.776 because we know it's going to change,01:05:44.780 --> 01:05:47.456 but it's mainly like every Sprint01:05:47.456 --> 01:05:49.646 getting together and reviewing this01:05:49.646 --> 01:05:52.318 road map and making sure that the the01:05:52.318 --> 01:05:55.097 front end devs and the back end devs are01:05:55.100 --> 01:05:56.956 collaborating and coordinating together.01:05:56.956 --> 01:05:59.990 On the feature that they're working on,01:05:59.990 --> 01:06:02.330 that gets the most ideal work.01:06:02.330 --> 01:06:02.834 I mean,01:06:02.834 --> 01:06:04.850 I think it gets the best output out01:06:04.911 --> 01:06:07.023 of out of the dev team because they01:06:07.023 --> 01:06:08.930 they need to be coordinating on those01:06:08.930 --> 01:06:11.554 on a lot of these features and it's it01:06:11.554 --> 01:06:13.510 hasn't historically happened a whole lot.01:06:13.510 --> 01:06:16.066 Unless a PM comes in and it's like hey,01:06:16.070 --> 01:06:17.974 you guys need to talk to each01:06:17.974 --> 01:06:20.313 other you know and and so this is01:06:20.313 --> 01:06:21.768 hopefully going to fix that.01:06:21.770 --> 01:06:23.840 And and as Daniel is bringing up in the01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:25.773 past like give them kind of agency to01:06:25.773 --> 01:06:28.108 get in there and and really take ownership.01:06:28.110 --> 01:06:30.864 Of these features and build them out in the01:06:30.864 --> 01:06:34.818 way that the requirements are line line out.01:06:34.818 --> 01:06:39.092 So anyway I I just want to jump in on that.01:06:39.092 --> 01:06:40.970 'cause it does change that paragraph01:06:41.029 --> 01:06:42.859 just slightly in terms of that.01:06:42.860 --> 01:06:44.603 That is what we are going to01:06:44.603 --> 01:06:45.880 be doing going forward.01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:47.770 And then I'll stop there.01:06:47.770 --> 01:06:49.910 Thanks guys.01:06:49.910 --> 01:06:51.090 In the long run,01:06:51.090 --> 01:06:53.130 that effectively makes our lives easier too,01:06:53.130 --> 01:06:55.512 because if we have this road map, we can.01:06:55.512 --> 01:06:58.457 And once you get towards the end of the01:06:58.457 --> 01:07:01.117 project here in UAT or in remediation,01:07:01.120 --> 01:07:02.563 you're dealing with, you know, bugs.01:07:02.563 --> 01:07:03.778 All that kind of stuff.01:07:03.780 --> 01:07:05.310 Obviously it's not going to be01:07:05.310 --> 01:07:06.075 quite as impactful,01:07:06.080 --> 01:07:08.222 but from the onset you could basically01:07:08.222 --> 01:07:10.362 plan out the sprints for your project01:07:10.362 --> 01:07:12.580 all in one fell so much easier.01:07:12.580 --> 01:07:13.804 So much easier actually.01:07:13.804 --> 01:07:15.640 And that was part of it01:07:15.705 --> 01:07:18.956 too. It it kind of takes the IT01:07:18.956 --> 01:07:21.687 takes the pressure off of us as PM's01:07:21.687 --> 01:07:23.836 for the Sprint planning so we can01:07:23.836 --> 01:07:26.017 be focusing on setting the right01:07:26.017 --> 01:07:27.892 expectations and things like that.01:07:27.900 --> 01:07:30.060 I mean, we still have to to kind of01:07:30.060 --> 01:07:31.912 govern the whole process, but man,01:07:31.912 --> 01:07:33.478 it sure will make Sprint planning01:07:33.478 --> 01:07:35.558 a lot easier if we have this road01:07:35.558 --> 01:07:37.361 map in hand 'cause it's like I01:07:37.361 --> 01:07:38.849 know what I'm working on now,01:07:38.850 --> 01:07:40.390 we don't we're working on next Sprint.01:07:40.390 --> 01:07:41.620 We know we're going to meet,01:07:41.620 --> 01:07:43.342 have a quick powwow before we get01:07:43.342 --> 01:07:44.542 started on everything we're going01:07:44.542 --> 01:07:46.190 to make sure the front end and the01:07:46.236 --> 01:07:47.666 back end devs are communicating.01:07:47.670 --> 01:07:48.890 And Bada Bing it.01:07:48.890 --> 01:07:51.120 It should be like magic after that.01:07:51.120 --> 01:07:54.864 Yeah, and just uh Ben was saying regarding01:07:54.864 --> 01:07:57.726 the Gantt chart, if anything, the.01:07:57.726 --> 01:08:00.318 This road map that we're talking01:08:00.318 --> 01:08:02.989 about will inform the Gantt chart,01:08:02.990 --> 01:08:04.190 not the other way around.01:08:04.190 --> 01:08:06.485 So you get your road map and then that's01:08:06.485 --> 01:08:08.668 what you build the Gantt chart off of.01:08:08.670 --> 01:08:10.890 Yep, 100% in the Gantt charts.01:08:10.890 --> 01:08:11.940 Not this mystery thing of like,01:08:11.940 --> 01:08:13.758 well, I guess checkout could go01:08:13.758 --> 01:08:15.609 next like a developer is saying.01:08:15.610 --> 01:08:16.338 Like cool,01:08:16.338 --> 01:08:18.886 we're going to start on checkout and01:08:18.886 --> 01:08:21.512 then dip Yep etc and that Gantt chart01:08:21.512 --> 01:08:24.052 being just an estimation of how we01:08:24.052 --> 01:08:26.146 think things are going to unfold.01:08:26.150 --> 01:08:28.974 And given the fact that that is rarely.01:08:28.980 --> 01:08:31.514 They well, heart never, actually they do.01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:34.090 They unfold how we predict.01:08:34.090 --> 01:08:36.496 I mean like Daniel saying yeah01:08:36.496 --> 01:08:39.396 the the road map will inform the01:08:39.396 --> 01:08:41.258 Gantt charts and it will make our01:08:41.258 --> 01:08:43.150 jobs easier to for project status01:08:43.150 --> 01:08:44.780 update meetings because we will.01:08:44.780 --> 01:08:45.772 Be able to, like,01:08:45.772 --> 01:08:46.268 you know,01:08:46.270 --> 01:08:48.574 speak more intelligently on on what01:08:48.574 --> 01:08:50.475 features that are actually being01:08:50.475 --> 01:08:52.675 worked on and and and I think it's01:08:52.675 --> 01:08:54.369 just overall going to make testing01:08:54.369 --> 01:08:56.602 a whole lot easier and and should01:08:56.602 --> 01:08:58.029 make everyone's lives better,01:08:58.030 --> 01:08:59.718 but we do need to take the initiative.01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:01.785 Everyone in this group to make sure01:09:01.785 --> 01:09:03.706 that we're getting these the time01:09:03.706 --> 01:09:05.944 allocated to the developers and and and.01:09:05.944 --> 01:09:08.100 And then I got one more thing.01:09:08.100 --> 01:09:10.014 After this we like getting basically01:09:10.014 --> 01:09:12.020 getting the road map piece going.01:09:12.020 --> 01:09:13.595 We need to make sure we get the time01:09:13.595 --> 01:09:15.117 to developers to have this this.01:09:15.120 --> 01:09:17.418 Meeting and review previous Sprint and01:09:17.418 --> 01:09:21.760 get all that set up but also come.01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:23.755 We we don't have a template yet.01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:24.090 OK,01:09:24.090 --> 01:09:26.610 we want to have a template for or01:09:26.610 --> 01:09:28.080 what that road map should look like,01:09:28.080 --> 01:09:28.538 because essentially,01:09:28.538 --> 01:09:30.650 you know we don't want to have a whole01:09:30.650 --> 01:09:32.054 bunch of different styles of it.01:09:32.060 --> 01:09:33.700 We we want to build kind of a01:09:33.700 --> 01:09:34.629 template where it's like,01:09:34.630 --> 01:09:36.436 all we're doing is PM's is going01:09:36.436 --> 01:09:38.303 coming in here and kind of filling01:09:38.303 --> 01:09:41.148 in the blanks of this template while01:09:41.148 --> 01:09:43.591 the developer is really putting01:09:43.591 --> 01:09:46.559 their mind power to use to to say01:09:46.559 --> 01:09:48.592 yeah this the alternator needs01:09:48.592 --> 01:09:51.610 to get put in after the engine.01:09:51.610 --> 01:09:52.648 You know that kind of thing.01:09:52.650 --> 01:09:57.116 So what we're going to use athlete01:09:57.116 --> 01:10:00.419 and row and bicon as kind of a.01:10:00.420 --> 01:10:03.004 Like you know we're gonna we're going to01:10:03.004 --> 01:10:05.657 use those to come up with that template.01:10:05.660 --> 01:10:07.856 So out of those three meetings,01:10:07.860 --> 01:10:09.190 which whichever template seems to01:10:09.190 --> 01:10:11.113 make the most sense for this road map01:10:11.113 --> 01:10:13.039 'cause we want it to be a visual thing,01:10:13.040 --> 01:10:15.224 it needs to be like a Anil.01:10:15.230 --> 01:10:18.020 It needs to illustrate what's happening.01:10:18.020 --> 01:10:18.700 But essentially,01:10:18.700 --> 01:10:20.740 once we have that template will01:10:20.740 --> 01:10:22.585 make sure that it's disseminated01:10:22.585 --> 01:10:24.420 to everybody in this group.01:10:24.420 --> 01:10:26.852 And then I would say it's going to01:10:26.852 --> 01:10:29.313 be really important that we all make01:10:29.313 --> 01:10:30.978 sure we're taking the initiative.01:10:30.980 --> 01:10:33.150 To ensure that all of our projects01:10:33.150 --> 01:10:35.639 that have a high enough complexity01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:37.516 which would be just about any SEV01:10:37.516 --> 01:10:39.003 project with any customization and01:10:39.003 --> 01:10:41.173 you guys know which ones they are.01:10:41.180 --> 01:10:42.940 But we just need to make sure we're01:10:42.940 --> 01:10:44.480 getting these road maps in so we'll01:10:44.480 --> 01:10:45.850 come up with the template first,01:10:45.850 --> 01:10:48.058 then me Daniel or Stephanie will01:10:48.058 --> 01:10:50.025 definitely get with everyone one on01:10:50.025 --> 01:10:52.136 one or as a group and and get that01:10:52.136 --> 01:10:53.701 disseminated 'cause this is going01:10:53.701 --> 01:10:55.962 to help a ton with organization and01:10:55.962 --> 01:10:57.632 planning and giving client updates01:10:57.632 --> 01:10:59.614 the whole whole slew of different01:10:59.614 --> 01:11:01.189 things we're talking about like.01:11:01.190 --> 01:11:02.888 Anything and as I'm trying to01:11:02.888 --> 01:11:04.988 come up with some metrics for us,01:11:04.990 --> 01:11:06.734 if you guys have any ideas hit up01:11:06.734 --> 01:11:08.588 any of the three of us about it,01:11:08.590 --> 01:11:11.774 but like basically how I think about it,01:11:11.780 --> 01:11:14.908 how I'm thinking about it is that if01:11:14.908 --> 01:11:18.557 there is a project as more than 40 hours.01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:20.690 In a Sprint.01:11:20.690 --> 01:11:23.108 It needs this type of work.01:11:23.110 --> 01:11:25.900 Yep, here here.01:11:25.900 --> 01:11:27.655 'cause then you're you're actually01:11:27.655 --> 01:11:30.324 dealing with a pretty high higher01:11:30.324 --> 01:11:32.779 complexity piece of software there.01:11:32.780 --> 01:11:33.306 I mean,01:11:33.306 --> 01:11:35.960 you got us 40 hours in a single Sprint.01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:36.935 Think about that.01:11:36.935 --> 01:11:38.885 Like if we're just doing like.01:11:38.890 --> 01:11:41.050 That's $6000 every two weeks,01:11:41.050 --> 01:11:44.258 so $3000 a week.01:11:44.260 --> 01:11:46.620 Right, we want to plan for something like01:11:46.620 --> 01:11:49.617 that and you don't want to just go through 6
01:11:49.617 --> 01:11:52.300 grand uh at the by the seat of your pants,01:11:52.300 --> 01:11:54.310 you know?01:11:54.310 --> 01:11:56.646 I don't want to go play out through01:11:56.650 --> 01:11:57.945 $150 by the seat of my pants.01:11:57.950 --> 01:12:00.030 Little right?01:12:00.030 --> 01:12:01.398 Maybe let's be honest,01:12:01.398 --> 01:12:06.120 I'm I'm squirrely, about 60CC.01:12:06.120 --> 01:12:07.984 And I think this solves another problem too.01:12:07.990 --> 01:12:09.120 Is like 'cause there's been.01:12:09.120 --> 01:12:10.450 There's kind of been this.01:12:10.450 --> 01:12:10.896 Uhm,01:12:10.896 --> 01:12:11.342 uh,01:12:11.342 --> 01:12:12.680 you know red,01:12:12.680 --> 01:12:16.808 see if you will between the PM group01:12:16.808 --> 01:12:20.200 and the devs to agree that like we,01:12:20.200 --> 01:12:22.870 we have to do a lot of poking and prodding01:12:22.943 --> 01:12:24.948 and coordinating and collaborating to01:12:24.948 --> 01:12:27.600 get them to sometimes get together.01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:28.572 And actually,01:12:28.572 --> 01:12:29.544 you know,01:12:29.544 --> 01:12:32.460 have these conversations with one another01:12:32.541 --> 01:12:34.778 and also between PM's and the devs too.01:12:34.780 --> 01:12:36.550 Like I think that doing this?01:12:36.550 --> 01:12:38.384 On a Sprint over Sprint basis is01:12:38.384 --> 01:12:40.575 going to help bridge that gap and and01:12:40.575 --> 01:12:42.624 and I think some really good things01:12:42.624 --> 01:12:44.668 are going to evolve out of this.01:12:44.670 --> 01:12:47.920 I I see this as just the beginning of us01:12:48.002 --> 01:12:50.797 continuing to improve our processes01:12:50.797 --> 01:12:53.033 and become more efficient.01:12:56.920 --> 01:13:01.210 Bingo bongo. Wedding is big,01:13:01.210 --> 01:13:06.520 Badaboom is not a gift. I can find it here.01:13:06.520 --> 01:13:09.720 Bring about a boom from the element thing.01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:10.938 I know we haven't talked about01:13:10.938 --> 01:13:12.348 this but I don't have anything01:13:12.348 --> 01:13:14.144 written down here, but scheduling01:13:14.144 --> 01:13:16.554 deployments to QA post sprints.01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:18.856 Do we want to tackle anything on01:13:18.856 --> 01:13:20.734 this very important 100% please?01:13:20.734 --> 01:13:24.310 Alright, how are we going to do it?01:13:24.310 --> 01:13:25.747 Alright, yeah, uhm.01:13:25.747 --> 01:13:30.004 I don't know how often this comes up or01:13:30.004 --> 01:13:33.252 if this has been addressed to you guys,01:13:33.260 --> 01:13:36.320 but one of the things I do is every project.01:13:36.320 --> 01:13:40.534 Every Sprint has a deploy to QA01:13:40.540 --> 01:13:44.086 if they're not ready for staging.01:13:44.090 --> 01:13:45.778 If they're pre production.01:13:45.778 --> 01:13:47.888 I haven't deployed to QA.01:13:47.890 --> 01:13:50.515 I haven't deployed a stage and a01:13:50.515 --> 01:13:53.168 deployed to prod ticket per project.01:13:53.170 --> 01:13:55.172 This should be completed at the end01:13:55.172 --> 01:13:57.071 of the Sprint and your development01:13:57.071 --> 01:13:59.360 team should know this is their last01:13:59.419 --> 01:14:01.135 ticket that they have to complete01:14:01.135 --> 01:14:04.290 on the last day of the Sprint.01:14:04.290 --> 01:14:06.729 So that when we go to do that code01:14:06.729 --> 01:14:08.680 complete that stuff is there for01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:11.230 Christian to test do we wanna call hard01:14:11.230 --> 01:14:14.578 and fast on this with that same 40 hour rule?01:14:14.580 --> 01:14:15.633 I think so.01:14:15.633 --> 01:14:17.037 I like that yeah,01:14:17.040 --> 01:14:18.699 if you have more than 40 hours01:14:18.699 --> 01:14:21.544 to Sprint for a project,01:14:21.544 --> 01:14:26.267 it needs that task for one developer01:14:26.267 --> 01:14:30.072 and and we need that calendar01:14:30.072 --> 01:14:32.544 occurrence for that developer as well.01:14:32.550 --> 01:14:36.630 100%. So like. On the development.01:14:36.630 --> 01:14:39.486 Yeah, sorry, I'm on the development front.01:14:39.490 --> 01:14:40.470 They they need to be.01:14:40.470 --> 01:14:42.892 So one thing that that is it's01:14:42.892 --> 01:14:43.930 not our responsibility.01:14:43.930 --> 01:14:44.454 I guess.01:14:44.454 --> 01:14:48.040 Ultimately to remind them of this, but.01:14:48.040 --> 01:14:49.834 There is a difference between committing01:14:49.834 --> 01:14:52.717 your code to a branch and doing a deployment.01:14:52.720 --> 01:14:55.112 So what I what I prefer my developers01:14:55.112 --> 01:14:58.072 to do and this this kind of requires01:14:58.072 --> 01:15:00.439 understanding git flow a little bit,01:15:00.440 --> 01:15:04.120 but I prefer that they they01:15:04.120 --> 01:15:07.120 commit their code changes.01:15:07.120 --> 01:15:10.210 On a ticket by ticket basis to the branch.01:15:10.210 --> 01:15:10.650 Oh yeah,01:15:10.650 --> 01:15:12.743 for sure and and then and then01:15:12.743 --> 01:15:14.703 making damn sure that that the01:15:14.703 --> 01:15:16.695 they each developer on a project.01:15:16.700 --> 01:15:18.212 If there's more than one developer01:15:18.212 --> 01:15:18.968 on the project,01:15:18.970 --> 01:15:21.784 they need to be pulling down latest01:15:21.790 --> 01:15:24.219 on a daily basis before they get01:15:24.219 --> 01:15:26.220 started working on their tickets01:15:26.220 --> 01:15:28.386 and then at that point yeah,01:15:28.390 --> 01:15:30.180 you just planted appointment at01:15:30.180 --> 01:15:32.570 the end of the Sprint, is that?01:15:32.570 --> 01:15:34.670 And as far as scheduling those go.01:15:34.670 --> 01:15:35.306 I mean,01:15:35.306 --> 01:15:37.635 I kind of I think in some scenarios01:15:37.635 --> 01:15:38.460 I know Kevin.01:15:38.460 --> 01:15:39.640 Isn't a proponent of this,01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:41.620 but I think in some scenarios01:15:41.620 --> 01:15:44.476 it makes sense to do more than01:15:44.476 --> 01:15:47.036 just one deployment per Sprint.01:15:47.040 --> 01:15:49.434 Like if there's a decent stopping01:15:49.434 --> 01:15:51.451 point and progress where you've01:15:51.451 --> 01:15:53.908 got to build that you feel like01:15:53.908 --> 01:15:55.779 you're ready to kind of test,01:15:55.780 --> 01:15:57.358 and that's what that go into.01:15:57.360 --> 01:16:00.400 That environment is for because you know you.01:16:00.400 --> 01:16:01.696 How many times do we hear01:16:01.696 --> 01:16:02.930 it worked on my local?01:16:02.930 --> 01:16:03.400 You know,01:16:03.400 --> 01:16:04.810 we need to see it working01:16:04.810 --> 01:16:06.000 in that environment,01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.586 so I really like like the.01:16:08.590 --> 01:16:10.888 Code complete work to not stagnate01:16:10.888 --> 01:16:12.830 and get like deployed ASAP.01:16:12.830 --> 01:16:14.312 But I also understand that that01:16:14.312 --> 01:16:16.642 that can blow up a budget if we're01:16:16.642 --> 01:16:17.930 doing like multiple deployments,01:16:17.930 --> 01:16:19.342 especially on complicated deployments.01:16:19.342 --> 01:16:21.764 But I think that also might be01:16:21.764 --> 01:16:23.790 an hour based thing, right?01:16:23.790 --> 01:16:26.910 Then, like yeah.01:16:26.910 --> 01:16:28.320 Well here Eric how much.01:16:28.320 --> 01:16:29.485 How many hours does athlete01:16:29.485 --> 01:16:30.417 have in this Sprint?01:16:30.420 --> 01:16:32.028 'cause that would be another one I would01:16:32.028 --> 01:16:33.499 think of in the same kind of area.01:16:33.500 --> 01:16:34.852 I have to check,01:16:34.852 --> 01:16:37.589 but it should be around 80 I think.01:16:37.590 --> 01:16:39.592 Yeah OK so I think like four01:16:39.592 --> 01:16:41.189 or want to say like.01:16:41.190 --> 01:16:43.110 Maybe that's the bottom rung.01:16:43.110 --> 01:16:44.001 If it's 81,01:16:44.001 --> 01:16:45.486 it's trying to define here.01:16:45.490 --> 01:16:46.360 Daniel, sorry.01:16:48.370 --> 01:16:50.302 Not so good? Uh, just addressing01:16:50.302 --> 01:16:52.010 what you were talking about.01:16:52.010 --> 01:16:52.742 Oh, multiple deployments.01:16:52.742 --> 01:16:54.973 So we got an 8 hour thing and we're01:16:54.973 --> 01:16:56.540 doing 40 hours one week, four hours.01:16:56.540 --> 01:16:57.140 The next week.01:16:57.140 --> 01:16:59.120 We do want two deployments.01:16:59.120 --> 01:17:00.308 Yeah, yeah, you're right,01:17:00.308 --> 01:17:01.199 you're right well.01:17:01.200 --> 01:17:02.160 And the other thing too is,01:17:02.160 --> 01:17:04.246 you know it's really helping out with01:17:04.246 --> 01:17:06.454 this is the efforts that the the01:17:06.454 --> 01:17:08.730 dev team has been putting into the01:17:08.730 --> 01:17:10.812 CI CD deployments because God that01:17:10.812 --> 01:17:13.285 right there allows for much quicker01:17:13.285 --> 01:17:15.911 turn around on testing because as01:17:15.911 --> 01:17:17.919 soon as they commit their code changes they.01:17:17.920 --> 01:17:19.190 They get to their deployed01:17:19.190 --> 01:17:21.000 by the the CI CD process,01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:21.909 which is amazing,01:17:21.909 --> 01:17:24.463 so it's it saves the time of somebody01:17:24.463 --> 01:17:26.635 like me or another developer having01:17:26.635 --> 01:17:29.835 to go into the actual server and you know,01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:32.099 use git to pull the actual code changes down01:17:32.099 --> 01:17:34.444 and make sure that it's built and deployed.01:17:34.450 --> 01:17:36.580 So yeah, yeah, it's it's it's.01:17:36.580 --> 01:17:37.672 That's really helpful there.01:17:37.672 --> 01:17:39.661 It saves a ton of money on01:17:39.661 --> 01:17:40.837 budget for these clients.01:17:40.840 --> 01:17:45.080 They don't even realize it 100.01:17:45.080 --> 01:17:47.048 Uh, But yeah, I don't know man and01:17:47.048 --> 01:17:48.948 on some marketing projects too.01:17:48.950 --> 01:17:52.710 It's like. Uhm?01:17:52.710 --> 01:17:53.310 Well, never mind,01:17:53.310 --> 01:17:55.057 I don't want to get into that because01:17:55.057 --> 01:17:56.845 then you're getting like content updates.01:17:56.850 --> 01:17:58.420 And and there's there's there.01:17:58.420 --> 01:18:00.080 It is important to understand01:18:00.080 --> 01:18:02.180 the lore that that that stuff.01:18:02.180 --> 01:18:02.912 But yeah,01:18:02.912 --> 01:18:05.091 it's it's kind of a whole another01:18:05.091 --> 01:18:06.039 topic for another day.01:18:06.040 --> 01:18:06.718 Sorry, yeah,01:18:06.718 --> 01:18:10.839 so do we want to talk at all about QA failed?01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:13.248 'cause I know that's one that's pretty01:18:13.248 --> 01:18:15.689 important and I think we can cover it01:18:15.689 --> 01:18:18.050 here with the last 7 minutes we got.01:18:18.050 --> 01:18:19.040 Let's do it.01:18:19.040 --> 01:18:20.690 Yeah, run through it man.01:18:20.690 --> 01:18:23.210 So hey, real quick guys,01:18:23.210 --> 01:18:25.938 can I actually something I want to point01:18:25.938 --> 01:18:28.600 out about the new clean oh structures?01:18:28.600 --> 01:18:30.532 I pretty much have the skeleton01:18:30.532 --> 01:18:32.060 structure where I want it,01:18:32.060 --> 01:18:32.558 can you?01:18:32.558 --> 01:18:34.550 Can I just show you guys real quick01:18:34.609 --> 01:18:36.697 where so if you want to add a new01:18:36.697 --> 01:18:38.964 article I made a spot where we're going to,01:18:38.970 --> 01:18:40.882 you know it can be put so it01:18:40.882 --> 01:18:43.350 gets put in the right place and I01:18:43.350 --> 01:18:45.225 haven't shown everybody this yet,01:18:45.230 --> 01:18:47.024 but some of you already have01:18:47.024 --> 01:18:48.220 seen it under that.01:18:48.220 --> 01:18:49.996 If you Scroll down,01:18:49.996 --> 01:18:52.216 there's this section right there01:18:52.216 --> 01:18:55.240 that new articles go here for review.01:18:55.240 --> 01:18:55.688 So then,01:18:55.688 --> 01:18:56.360 like you know,01:18:56.360 --> 01:18:59.447 once a week or or or whenever,01:18:59.450 --> 01:19:00.946 I'll like if you ping me and let01:19:00.946 --> 01:19:02.627 me know you put something in there,01:19:02.630 --> 01:19:04.640 usually I'll go in and I'll,01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:07.688 I'll put it where it goes and create01:19:07.688 --> 01:19:09.241 different references throughout that01:19:09.241 --> 01:19:12.129 structure to make it easy to find and.01:19:12.130 --> 01:19:14.898 And I'm going to start kind of going01:19:14.898 --> 01:19:17.120 through some of these articles that01:19:17.120 --> 01:19:19.436 are already existing and creating those01:19:19.436 --> 01:19:21.336 kind of different related resource01:19:21.336 --> 01:19:24.088 links and things like that with in there.01:19:24.090 --> 01:19:25.080 But yeah,01:19:25.080 --> 01:19:25.575 no.01:19:25.575 --> 01:19:28.050 And I think man sleep.01:19:28.050 --> 01:19:29.856 It's a mystery to us all.01:19:29.860 --> 01:19:31.970 Please hey but no no.01:19:31.970 --> 01:19:33.220 Anyway I just want to01:19:33.220 --> 01:19:34.470 show you guys that 'cause01:19:34.526 --> 01:19:36.374 this there there will be some01:19:36.374 --> 01:19:38.094 governance like a governance process01:19:38.094 --> 01:19:40.368 involved at some point in the future.01:19:40.370 --> 01:19:42.146 Once this is really locked in.01:19:42.150 --> 01:19:44.628 But since we're we're still locking01:19:44.628 --> 01:19:46.910 in policy and procedure in here,01:19:46.910 --> 01:19:49.302 anyone can come in and put something in01:19:49.302 --> 01:19:51.708 here for review and and get it at it.01:19:51.710 --> 01:19:53.120 I mean, that'll actually never change.01:19:53.120 --> 01:19:54.722 I'm just saying it's it's fairly01:19:54.722 --> 01:19:56.594 fluid right now too, and I'm I'm01:19:56.594 --> 01:19:58.202 still very open to any suggestions.01:19:58.210 --> 01:20:00.238 If anyone sees anything weird about01:20:00.238 --> 01:20:02.538 the structure or has any ideas of01:20:02.538 --> 01:20:04.308 how it could be more efficient?01:20:04.310 --> 01:20:05.800 Man, I'm I'm definitely open01:20:05.800 --> 01:20:07.290 open to hearing about that,01:20:07.290 --> 01:20:08.250 and that's that's all I had.01:20:08.250 --> 01:20:09.522 I just wanted to show you01:20:09.522 --> 01:20:10.370 everyone on this call,01:20:10.370 --> 01:20:11.805 kind of where they could put if01:20:11.805 --> 01:20:13.297 you're going to make a new article.01:20:13.300 --> 01:20:15.712 Put it there and it'll get01:20:15.712 --> 01:20:18.648 sorted within the new structure.01:20:18.650 --> 01:20:19.442 Agreed, beautiful,01:20:19.442 --> 01:20:22.610 I just I just moved those over there01:20:22.682 --> 01:20:25.386 so that it can be reviewed just all01:20:25.386 --> 01:20:27.587 that killed my approval from CR&KK,01:20:27.587 --> 01:20:29.369 but that's cool. I'll redo it.01:20:29.370 --> 01:20:32.088 That's fine. Oh sorry. What happened?01:20:32.090 --> 01:20:34.258 I said both of the links for those01:20:34.258 --> 01:20:36.388 over 2 doesn't break the link.01:20:36.390 --> 01:20:38.670 It doesn't. Yeah it does.01:20:38.670 --> 01:20:40.002 That's one of the cool things01:20:40.002 --> 01:20:40.668 about new clean.01:20:40.670 --> 01:20:41.648 Oh is it?01:20:41.648 --> 01:20:43.930 Yeah, if you create an article there01:20:44.002 --> 01:20:46.179 the only thing that can break the01:20:46.179 --> 01:20:48.679 link is if you change the title.01:20:48.680 --> 01:20:51.400 A lot of them that I might have that title,01:20:51.400 --> 01:20:52.828 the article stays the same and01:20:52.828 --> 01:20:54.770 you can move it wherever you want.01:20:54.770 --> 01:20:56.570 I posted it in here though.01:20:56.570 --> 01:20:58.180 Well, Kyle, if they don't get approved,01:20:58.180 --> 01:21:00.540 buddy, that's on you OK,01:21:00.540 --> 01:21:04.540 or you can blame me too, no never.01:21:04.540 --> 01:21:08.930 IPad valid Christian?01:21:08.930 --> 01:21:10.840 Got it.01:21:10.840 --> 01:21:13.440 Uhm, OK, so real quick.01:21:13.440 --> 01:21:15.560 Help you with that one.01:21:15.560 --> 01:21:19.372 Uhm? So he's speechless.01:21:19.372 --> 01:21:21.990 He doesn't even know what to say.01:21:21.990 --> 01:21:23.467 I'm trying to gather my thoughts here,01:21:23.470 --> 01:21:23.970 Ben.01:21:26.840 --> 01:21:29.478 Well, thank you for that then yes,01:21:29.478 --> 01:21:32.230 ma'am, I prefer Sir.01:21:32.230 --> 01:21:34.878 I think we deemed the first thing that01:21:34.878 --> 01:21:37.276 developers should work on in a Sprint is01:21:37.276 --> 01:21:39.400 tickets that failed from the last Sprint.01:21:39.400 --> 01:21:43.747 Yes, and I think the etiquette for this is,01:21:43.750 --> 01:21:46.110 uh, I was wondering where we had it.01:21:46.110 --> 01:21:47.580 Is that where?01:21:47.580 --> 01:21:50.520 No, it's not in this one.01:21:50.520 --> 01:21:51.610 Daniel involvement.01:21:51.610 --> 01:21:56.710 So the last time the three of us talks.01:21:56.710 --> 01:21:59.790 Which three, uh, the cephalopods.01:21:59.790 --> 01:22:02.674 Yeah, I'll Stephanie would.01:22:02.674 --> 01:22:03.810 We created this document01:22:03.810 --> 01:22:04.946 we were talking about.01:22:04.950 --> 01:22:06.886 QA failed and that needs to be like01:22:06.886 --> 01:22:09.048 a high priority in the next Sprint.01:22:09.050 --> 01:22:10.370 But I know we've been doing01:22:10.370 --> 01:22:11.630 a lot with priority lately,01:22:11.630 --> 01:22:13.763 so I wanted to get your thought process on.01:22:13.770 --> 01:22:16.002 QA failed and what you think the priority01:22:16.002 --> 01:22:17.709 level should actually be on those.01:22:17.710 --> 01:22:20.070 I think high is fine.01:22:20.070 --> 01:22:23.724 But I did everyone hear if you're a project01:22:23.724 --> 01:22:27.088 manager or as Chris Chris Reddick would say,01:22:27.090 --> 01:22:29.757 if you hear my voice right now.01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:30.693 Uhm, you matter.01:22:30.693 --> 01:22:32.870 Also, you need to be looking at01:22:32.939 --> 01:22:35.075 your priorities on a daily basis.01:22:35.080 --> 01:22:37.210 So if these are what's high,01:22:37.210 --> 01:22:38.046 that's cool.01:22:38.046 --> 01:22:39.300 I don't care,01:22:39.300 --> 01:22:40.652 but when they're done,01:22:40.652 --> 01:22:42.680 you need to be actively changing01:22:42.748 --> 01:22:44.498 your other priorities actively every01:22:44.498 --> 01:22:47.519 single day so we can make that mean01:22:47.519 --> 01:22:49.542 something to developers. Yeah, and.01:22:49.542 --> 01:22:52.419 On that I can tell you that.01:22:52.420 --> 01:22:54.268 So I kind of think about it like01:22:54.268 --> 01:22:56.184 and I'm curious what you guys01:22:56.184 --> 01:22:58.166 thoughts are because on the new work01:22:58.166 --> 01:22:59.336 that's brought into the Sprint,01:22:59.340 --> 01:23:00.776 regardless of its priority,01:23:00.776 --> 01:23:03.399 I still think that QA field tickets01:23:03.399 --> 01:23:06.199 should be worked first because they were.01:23:06.200 --> 01:23:08.120 Those are commitments that were01:23:08.120 --> 01:23:10.040 expected from the previous Sprint.01:23:10.040 --> 01:23:11.570 Now there's always going to01:23:11.570 --> 01:23:12.794 be exceptions for that,01:23:12.800 --> 01:23:15.040 and that's up to the PM to control.01:23:15.040 --> 01:23:16.760 But as a general rule,01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:20.420 it's like if I'm a developer and I have a.01:23:20.420 --> 01:23:21.988 Couple normal like critical01:23:21.988 --> 01:23:23.164 and urgent tickets,01:23:23.170 --> 01:23:26.775 but I see two failed QA tickets.01:23:26.780 --> 01:23:28.548 You should naturally fix01:23:28.548 --> 01:23:30.758 those QA field tickets first.01:23:30.760 --> 01:23:31.894 Unless otherwise specified.01:23:31.894 --> 01:23:35.159 It just seems like the organic way to do it.01:23:35.160 --> 01:23:39.514 It just seems common sense to me.01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:40.094 You know,01:23:40.094 --> 01:23:41.529 can I ask really quickly?01:23:41.530 --> 01:23:43.420 Is that kind of in the back of your head01:23:43.475 --> 01:23:45.162 when y'all are Sprint planning just to01:23:45.162 --> 01:23:47.079 call out for total transparency here.01:23:47.080 --> 01:23:48.016 For the past,01:23:48.016 --> 01:23:49.888 probably two months now our QA01:23:49.888 --> 01:23:51.825 failed column has gotten up almost01:23:51.825 --> 01:23:53.858 at 300 tickets and it's been01:23:53.858 --> 01:23:55.898 sitting consistently at that point,01:23:55.900 --> 01:23:56.972 so I'm just curious.01:23:56.972 --> 01:24:00.900 I mean, unication issue between dads and PMS.01:24:00.900 --> 01:24:03.750 Where were were there's just?01:24:03.750 --> 01:24:05.014 We haven't been able.01:24:05.014 --> 01:24:06.910 We haven't bridged the gap between01:24:06.968 --> 01:24:08.376 this level of communication01:24:08.376 --> 01:24:09.784 on we've talked about.01:24:09.790 --> 01:24:11.018 The criticality and like01:24:11.018 --> 01:24:12.246 the different sub levels.01:24:12.250 --> 01:24:15.764 But I don't think we've specifically had01:24:15.764 --> 01:24:18.115 this discussion with with any of the01:24:18.115 --> 01:24:20.689 leaders or as a group with the dev team.01:24:20.690 --> 01:24:22.130 To be quite honest,01:24:22.130 --> 01:24:24.416 so it's fair to them that that's01:24:24.416 --> 01:24:27.052 still an issue and the onus is on01:24:27.052 --> 01:24:28.978 us to have that conversation with01:24:29.046 --> 01:24:30.612 them. Because you're you have01:24:30.612 --> 01:24:32.460 a valid point Christian go and01:24:32.521 --> 01:24:34.116 I'm yeah go ahead Stephanie,01:24:34.120 --> 01:24:36.913 sorry I'm done up one of my01:24:36.913 --> 01:24:39.778 weird points to that are strange,01:24:39.780 --> 01:24:42.770 strange and unusual projects like01:24:42.770 --> 01:24:45.090 the sifas of the world and the caps01:24:45.090 --> 01:24:47.549 of the world that have had failed01:24:47.549 --> 01:24:50.483 coup ways that are randomly fixed01:24:50.483 --> 01:24:53.396 in various other things up so.01:24:53.396 --> 01:24:56.740 Cipfa, they're at a point where if they01:24:56.836 --> 01:25:01.846 don't call it out to me, I don't care.01:25:01.846 --> 01:25:04.050 Like that's literally where we're at.01:25:04.050 --> 01:25:07.884 We are at bottom bottom of the barrel MVP.01:25:07.890 --> 01:25:10.010 Go live like if they call it out to me,01:25:10.010 --> 01:25:11.038 I'm gonna do it.01:25:11.038 --> 01:25:12.850 If CP calls it out to me.01:25:12.850 --> 01:25:14.900 I love you to the ends of the moon and back,01:25:14.900 --> 01:25:16.790 but that's going to phase two.01:25:16.790 --> 01:25:18.434 Not gonna happen.01:25:18.434 --> 01:25:20.626 So from that perspective,01:25:20.630 --> 01:25:24.689 I think that it needs to be a conversation01:25:24.689 --> 01:25:27.849 between that particular project team.01:25:27.850 --> 01:25:30.075 With. And understanding of where01:25:30.075 --> 01:25:33.588 that MVP lies so it gets a little,01:25:33.590 --> 01:25:35.767 no, that's that's that's a one off.01:25:35.770 --> 01:25:37.570 But man, that happens a lot.01:25:37.570 --> 01:25:38.033 Actually.01:25:38.033 --> 01:25:40.348 Stephanie, 'cause I have that01:25:40.348 --> 01:25:42.720 same situation going on where?01:25:42.720 --> 01:25:44.424 Like if I find a bug or Christian01:25:44.424 --> 01:25:45.120 finds a bug,01:25:45.120 --> 01:25:47.298 unless the client is throwing a fit about it,01:25:47.300 --> 01:25:48.446 I'll make a 01:25:48.450 --> 01:25:51.936 but I'm focusing on here real quick.01:25:51.936 --> 01:25:53.420 I'm sorry Christian and I know this01:25:53.470 --> 01:25:54.778 is your point of expertise here,01:25:54.780 --> 01:25:57.004 but I just want to make a quick01:25:57.004 --> 01:25:58.780 call if that's the case,01:25:58.780 --> 01:26:00.760 we need to at least acknowledge01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:02.686 these so Christian knows, right.01:26:02.686 --> 01:26:06.116 So yeah, right exactly that full01:26:06.116 --> 01:26:09.637 priority number 8 is called deferred bug.01:26:09.640 --> 01:26:13.007 Yep, so hit that aid on there.01:26:13.010 --> 01:26:15.523 That way it goes off of Christian's01:26:15.523 --> 01:26:17.279 plate and he goes OK.01:26:17.280 --> 01:26:20.556 We got a new state alright.01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:21.824 I mean, that's great.01:26:21.824 --> 01:26:22.776 Yeah, have that, uhm?01:26:22.776 --> 01:26:23.836 I mean to be fair,01:26:23.840 --> 01:26:25.649 I just learned about it when I was doing01:26:25.649 --> 01:26:27.339 this priority priority dig this week.01:26:27.340 --> 01:26:29.600 So yeah, eight deferred bug.01:26:29.600 --> 01:26:30.740 Throw it on there and then.01:26:30.740 --> 01:26:31.424 We know it exists.01:26:31.424 --> 01:26:32.665 He can wipe his hands off of01:26:32.665 --> 01:26:33.697 it and he's not like manner.01:26:33.700 --> 01:26:34.768 They see what I'm doing here.01:26:34.770 --> 01:26:35.486 Yeah,01:26:35.486 --> 01:26:36.202 exactly.01:26:36.202 --> 01:26:36.918 Yep,01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:40.392 one more other little caveat to think about01:26:40.392 --> 01:26:43.929 on these QA fails is that sometimes too.01:26:43.930 --> 01:26:47.130 You can have like multiple bugs be01:26:47.130 --> 01:26:49.280 detected and and tickets created01:26:49.280 --> 01:26:52.357 for those bugs and as it turns out,01:26:52.360 --> 01:26:54.144 from a technical standpoint,01:26:54.144 --> 01:26:57.998 fixing one thing can fix all four of those.01:26:58.000 --> 01:26:58.704 Yeah yeah,01:26:58.704 --> 01:27:01.520 issue and we all need to be going01:27:01.600 --> 01:27:04.477 through those QA fails to make sure.01:27:04.480 --> 01:27:08.456 That those are either closed or put into01:27:08.456 --> 01:27:11.421 deferred based and that comes back to01:27:11.421 --> 01:27:14.776 us actively being on our clients websites.01:27:14.780 --> 01:27:17.678 Yeah, that's the key thing you gotta do guys.01:27:17.680 --> 01:27:20.258 What Stephanie just said is is01:27:20.258 --> 01:27:22.166 is check your own stuff too.01:27:22.170 --> 01:27:24.408 You gotta be on that website.01:27:24.410 --> 01:27:27.274 That was great point.01:27:27.274 --> 01:27:27.990 Absolutely.01:27:27.990 --> 01:27:28.770 Gotta check yourself01:27:28.770 --> 01:27:29.810 before you wreck yourself.01:27:29.810 --> 01:27:30.058 Yeah,01:27:30.058 --> 01:27:31.794 I I can't count how many times01:27:31.794 --> 01:27:33.253 Christian has called me up and01:27:33.253 --> 01:27:34.621 been like hey what's going on01:27:34.674 --> 01:27:36.810 with this? And I'm like actually I01:27:36.810 --> 01:27:39.150 know exactly what's going on with that.01:27:39.150 --> 01:27:40.390 Go ahead and pass it.01:27:40.390 --> 01:27:44.026 Yep, and also I mean, it's your01:27:44.026 --> 01:27:47.478 reputation on the line that flarity so.01:27:47.478 --> 01:27:49.642 I mean, you know, uh, it.01:27:49.642 --> 01:27:50.386 It's really good.01:27:50.390 --> 01:27:52.385 I definitely be getting in there and01:27:52.385 --> 01:27:54.590 and if anything just go in there and01:27:54.590 --> 01:27:56.430 play around with your your projects.01:27:56.430 --> 01:27:58.278 Just see if you can break stuff,01:27:58.280 --> 01:27:59.876 see what it's doing, get familiar01:27:59.876 --> 01:28:01.810 with the scope you know that helps.01:28:01.810 --> 01:28:02.680 Actually, I'm sorry I didn't01:28:02.680 --> 01:28:03.949 mean to say give me the scope,01:28:03.950 --> 01:28:04.923 I know you guys are trying to01:28:04.923 --> 01:28:05.889 do that and definitely are,01:28:05.890 --> 01:28:07.850 but it helps get you more familiar01:28:07.850 --> 01:28:10.006 with the scope when you do that well,01:28:10.010 --> 01:28:11.762 not just scope it seeing what01:28:11.762 --> 01:28:12.930 the end user sees.01:28:12.930 --> 01:28:15.711 I want every PM on this team to go01:28:15.711 --> 01:28:18.330 into their clients websites with.01:28:18.330 --> 01:28:21.760 Eyes of an end user percent and01:28:21.760 --> 01:28:23.966 see what it is that they're seeing,01:28:23.970 --> 01:28:26.448 and experience it as if you were01:28:26.448 --> 01:28:28.420 shopping on Amazon and be like.01:28:28.420 --> 01:28:30.356 Why is this weird?01:28:30.356 --> 01:28:33.710 Yep, and ask yourself, you know,01:28:33.710 --> 01:28:36.090 does that it so common sense should01:28:36.090 --> 01:28:38.339 always prevail on these things too.01:28:38.340 --> 01:28:39.104 So like.01:28:39.104 --> 01:28:39.868 Just yeah,01:28:39.868 --> 01:28:43.174 I'm sorry it's one of Elon Musk rules01:28:43.174 --> 01:28:45.786 that I've been latching onto trying01:28:45.786 --> 01:28:47.266 to make everyone more efficient.01:28:47.270 --> 01:28:50.824 But if a rule doesn't make sense01:28:50.824 --> 01:28:53.129 or and this is just very general,01:28:53.130 --> 01:28:55.013 but that's that's the thing that he01:28:55.013 --> 01:28:57.399 says is if a rule doesn't make sense,01:28:57.400 --> 01:28:58.930 the rules should probably change.01:28:58.930 --> 01:29:00.540 Common sense should always prevail.